From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: [External] : Pop-up-windows vs display-buffer-take-action Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2023 20:00:35 +0000 Message-ID: References: <831qmqc0be.fsf@gnu.org> <83ttzmajk8.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="27642"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: "raman@google.com" , "emacs-devel@gnu.org" To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Feb 15 21:01:08 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pSNxj-0006zK-Eu for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 15 Feb 2023 21:01:07 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pSNxY-0007Ku-FB; Wed, 15 Feb 2023 15:00:56 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pSNxM-0007DO-M4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 15 Feb 2023 15:00:45 -0500 Original-Received: from mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com ([205.220.177.32]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pSNxK-0005aW-2Y; Wed, 15 Feb 2023 15:00:44 -0500 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (m0246630.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (8.17.1.19/8.17.1.19) with ESMTP id 31FJwMod000510; Wed, 15 Feb 2023 20:00:39 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=corp-2022-7-12; bh=TsG+BNVPhkoHl7gvAyzb8bIRnLngAYwCHV2csXzNkPg=; b=UcoXG8DC4mpIBvnNdGl7Xw8tDln+KQAv6L+9wwDC1RyyiQRRQuWk4VIXxS8T517gHeIX N8+u4+KLFW5gkw9SFv35QyBmdWeG/VLrOW/ApS/AJCG7K/U+w+wH6gxbK33I/DqthWMI WV3yu8/LnGRNFWZK9fiPgCJJ09m15j6+7XMaUNES+HLEUYqzGYoGQDrxqbuOa45KfkDU r6QFn+T1HUoHR/eGWujRytOLE+wJOt9KRMXTKc0/76ItN5/Q51Y8JTpBfoqHCRoxnEim HF27N02PtUKx2e2d3rWnl96sIvTw257C5zdPFfLtFAeESThRxhXXlItOovQGKe4mtXj5 rA== Original-Received: from phxpaimrmta01.imrmtpd1.prodappphxaev1.oraclevcn.com (phxpaimrmta01.appoci.oracle.com [138.1.114.2]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (PPS) with ESMTPS id 3np1edh8wk-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Feb 2023 20:00:39 +0000 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (phxpaimrmta01.imrmtpd1.prodappphxaev1.oraclevcn.com [127.0.0.1]) by phxpaimrmta01.imrmtpd1.prodappphxaev1.oraclevcn.com (8.17.1.5/8.17.1.5) with ESMTP id 31FJjCP0032425; Wed, 15 Feb 2023 20:00:38 GMT Original-Received: from nam10-dm6-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-dm6nam10lp2104.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.58.104]) by phxpaimrmta01.imrmtpd1.prodappphxaev1.oraclevcn.com (PPS) with ESMTPS id 3np1f7m06u-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Feb 2023 20:00:38 +0000 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=QYH1KMT4nOv/dARlKPw5Fc0E+6wa4zUteMRiMD9Ap0Ge65qTBOywqEmKZNLDNEdQhvLrXXzn7Y4ZIhNtc1d4MPE0RnVhYpLsySL7oLwclUSUMS1bOP6FCFn4371ZXn2PrJcQXUP7O9uf0yTy6wc5/kiJrfNNy5bTffLXaxixQI5ir2KiBld1Oagt8SFiqaneHG/29QYoTxU+5d3eWPvsXYUmndM4t7nG3t9TQoYENIgBwd/YrbVZKgPRJ9wKWoVQq/Mz17buExAA6EFOcskawGECjJjCWDfraeYMWC9fKdkTDI3ZNdNSP35lvE3SB2R85zfjqBtBLuzLFtGS43yDEw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=TsG+BNVPhkoHl7gvAyzb8bIRnLngAYwCHV2csXzNkPg=; b=PtE967NCsupnMaCwJBMH44kCldlKWW2bAncMAkLNQyMaM3qWvaEabZCBzGaOdq+nTQvd0JUPor7nCzW2xksMpgif2/OImFs4fOQIGA0tzwNBPfJZihRlDBNvTUaA4houKmYFoMp5mmhlxi5v7ibYqoupDArbPwt46P4ooc5a8vO/QOXM5BB9prqM2JrEx80/qv11I2mN3DaNeuyJKueOrYcQYfu7KIALXFmwu+QDQin/fsnaS/cUuCoxs7TVwTR3bMy8eSzAIcKukWiWoZyLsjyGKKlTw4mF+B4aOsVh6mV/NdFwgdcMxrlu1Emz/TDanTqtOSDwSD/Vh6qESOkpRg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=oracle.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=oracle.com; dkim=pass header.d=oracle.com; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-oracle-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=TsG+BNVPhkoHl7gvAyzb8bIRnLngAYwCHV2csXzNkPg=; b=ysj6JVJZUzFX2w6fZ10Zf0GB1CvsQEQIIGUhUzLhijUeZMxH7bSHzrkv82C+ieSF/Q4h0SIAlsNkil3IAPlJECVxDXRKS5q2/HKSBSwit+yDjPr5DYrvKFUvjY6LjBGz3WKSBxPaw/sYJGTRD8XmIu1ode8lsmKXNnx+RzLmjHQ= Original-Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:37e::19) by IA1PR10MB7358.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:208:3fa::8) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.6111.10; Wed, 15 Feb 2023 20:00:35 +0000 Original-Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::d353:3fb:94e4:18b9]) by SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::d353:3fb:94e4:18b9%8]) with mapi id 15.20.6111.012; Wed, 15 Feb 2023 20:00:35 +0000 Thread-Topic: [External] : Pop-up-windows vs display-buffer-take-action Thread-Index: AQHZQWh6/IX0icaPkUuJyJTlmRKkpq7QY81g In-Reply-To: <83ttzmajk8.fsf@gnu.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: SJ0PR10MB5488:EE_|IA1PR10MB7358:EE_ x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 6c050037-ed32-45c9-c672-08db0f8f4d3a x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(13230025)(366004)(376002)(136003)(346002)(39860400002)(396003)(451199018)(83380400001)(41300700001)(38070700005)(52536014)(33656002)(5660300002)(2906002)(122000001)(38100700002)(86362001)(8936002)(44832011)(4326008)(66476007)(55016003)(6916009)(9686003)(26005)(64756008)(6506007)(186003)(66946007)(316002)(54906003)(66446008)(66556008)(478600001)(8676002)(76116006)(71200400001)(66899018)(7696005); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: =?us-ascii?Q?b02yLF+QspIs3/XqdcVX7v3Lkw6JFc87SHTpNLyCBM8Cf2sX7QJqzW+cLMKI?= =?us-ascii?Q?9g+44vUd89bVvuu81MqtjkQzmstZVtKynbcVVJiZeG89aoOcm6neYvwkWFtH?= =?us-ascii?Q?rYJlErE6osykcULXaKVQbC9ZS6pgBQEJ5h8eQmkpDcih1GCT5HpRJbK3gzbn?= =?us-ascii?Q?XSA/0sgzdVMHHV3oBeuY4gmCWM+KHY2EH1Yktm19Lku0B40qftuCIV8N6X0u?= =?us-ascii?Q?MTZ/rUnuwm9sUa4Vn2u3BGzI9qvTP21CqChQDgPU/Cv2VjJnnyNZ0rBrFMdV?= =?us-ascii?Q?UoleInNWsi6oOerWiEI1czrFBOGk8UXBDj/Mqsfe30rnNWaX++SWC5KEbK+S?= =?us-ascii?Q?0BD2znTzWOIZUx2pCh1gAEPBh9ViZPnDe1GD7VQF+LesSHb9qQ2Ie6lUMw/K?= =?us-ascii?Q?ObwMIkEdwWEg8jTczTG4akUHr3IxDG5XhPpN0/BzEdHCY3sRrcsSAFOS7yr4?= =?us-ascii?Q?rUHyicu/jiFTYaZ7OouMZaTs5o7Flz3i8j3nnFgEf18Uy0t6qGogYt6EsRj1?= =?us-ascii?Q?TY68Il0dsKDuAJkKPF9JkaCjAKPslhzGI4k42z2z2pB19jnDeGDPG0yzpCum?= =?us-ascii?Q?ANyGXH0S6Ac87GDC5dSBFn/nMF6Tu+fF29uyV+xa+ModtxpXgB6W4xA9/io/?= =?us-ascii?Q?GP X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-ChunkCount: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-0: kUF93clcjoKsQRc+jSfMjhFwjlzBdLe5WclZknX9LOQ4RAEz8pdZKxpU6TMPJ5Ijfl1rFKDXwLGA/lTz+dv96MW8nOvWvgZzj0TMbvp5JoV8HyMhblMvh/3AryXE9h65yz0UvyCIk172whY/p03nGP0WK2B/+My+e7WTO7bwg/LOUOYRtbqG5yzaTCOeJPE5mLmHvFYFDB5YUtXLEK6kp19uVWqFAzNUF43mmxqFVGZJ/ZtiYkxY9gWNAsQH5KuVJZfYqS1FMNBn9omxAtGKIZ1/v9aSuICt1PE9C8JoGU9GgXwrBEA6jiKLBSz8C3Iugqy/59lrA5x+TarWEeEXK+zgbF+bKQfLtdeAHhmtLTnpdjdnG19F0Yc/mlSkrqopk39T+aApmrMf0NqOQFRpLbNHmZkGR7E4gAz1zHzwTbTPu1reNFDXd1lOyAYDpM9sLYiFgeEvvrQ0AniGOZkj9cMvIjroO4p+YZrhtk13ZsTkFhCUXR7OxBgT1hQf6Hx4KAQw5dTwiEL/tIq/OeTOm8SYKzQ0Rhh75cH7i0kuS2MATAodEIoa7tMpvWw4JNPbZexxk4YPe9Cx9DHymhEP31/Lyr6Oy4O61tMxvCzeqHt4RP2Slb8JpJmO4Zp9SaS3rlPiuxTIdGv73eVIdtpOdsammV+Te7FHFCsajqyKzj12T6HgpO70UE+dxrZhxLJ4g7NR15aJk8Q52I2MYCLGAbrF9XpiHLx4TqOoSmPpqSuOlB 9LVKgMGnNgcemT2iw1GUSiAz9Mw7Gj0nLzMdxtpg== X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 6c050037-ed32-45c9-c672-08db0f8f4d3a X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 15 Feb 2023 20:00:35.3182 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: L5ciO3uWZEPp7z0wf4Ds3DXlCyWWXFQfKU1WOkbh4a5dEn87XtFdZI6hrKvXDwfjlX5nKogDZHNIicP8wnDkHw== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: IA1PR10MB7358 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.219,Aquarius:18.0.930,Hydra:6.0.562,FMLib:17.11.170.22 definitions=2023-02-15_11,2023-02-15_01,2023-02-09_01 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 adultscore=0 mlxscore=0 bulkscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 spamscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2212070000 definitions=main-2302150173 X-Proofpoint-GUID: m0mPNIPunF2pElJVY1ljnE00l__AsfP- X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: m0mPNIPunF2pElJVY1ljnE00l__AsfP- Received-SPF: pass client-ip=205.220.177.32; envelope-from=drew.adams@oracle.com; helo=mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:303340 Archived-At: > > > > `pop-up-windows' shouldn't have been deprecated. > > > > > > Are we now going to pick up fights lost 12 years > > > ago? Really? > > > > Not picking any fights. Expressing my sadness > > that this happened. (But you lifted my spirits > > by suggesting/hinting (?), below, that it's > > _not_ deprecated.) > > > > > And where do you see that this variable is deprecated, btw? > > > > You're right that I didn't see the word > > "deprecated" as such. If you think > > "deprecated" is not meant, so much the better. > > Glad to hear that. > > > > To be clearer, the (28.2) doc string says this: > > > > This variable is provided mainly for backward > > compatibility and should not be used in new code. > > To make 'display-buffer' behave as if this were t, > > customize 'display-buffer-base-action' instead. >=20 > That doesn't sound like deprecation to me. Good to know. It sounded like it to me. So then what was the "fight" "lost 12 years ago"? Did it have anything at all to do with this thread? It can't have been about that addition (in Emacs 28) to the doc string. Emacs 28 was released only a year ago.=20 > > What I pointed out wrt referring to=20 > > "used in new code" stands. >=20 > That's a recommendation, nothing more, nothing less. But just what's being recommended to users about this option? It doesn't just recommend to use option `display-buffer-base-action' instead. It specifically says that user option `pop-up-windows' "should not be used in new code." What does it mean to "use" a user option in code? And whose "new code" is it talking about - code by users of the option? Are we recommending to users of option `pop-up-windows" not to use it in new code (whatever that might mean)? Or are we just recommending to users to use `display-buffer-base-action' instead of option `pop-up-windows'? Do you perhaps see the statement about not using `pop-up-windows' in new code as meaningless, and think it should be removed? If not, do you at least see that it's not clear? If so, please consider clarifying what's meant by use of the option in code. ____ In any case, T.V. Raman's point/request was this (which I've also requested in the past): that newer option appears much more complex to configure; a recipe for getting something close to the old pop-up-windows t would be nice. Indeed. How to get that behavior, or even close to it, with `display-buffer-base-action'? That's never been answered, to my knowledge. If `pop-up-windows' can do what it does then the all-inclusive, enhanced `display-buffer' paraphernalia should also be able to do it, no? And in particular, we should be able to then offer users a simple Boolean option or mode (or at least close to it) to do that, based on the `display-buffer' scaffolding, no? So far, I think the answer given has been, alas, "no". And yet we tell users to use `display-buffer-base-action' as a substitute? If Emacs can't do it, how do we expect users to do it?