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envelope-from=drew.adams@oracle.com; helo=mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:137972 Archived-At: > >> > 3. The "argument" for deprecating it amounted to only > >> > a statement that stylistically some preferred that > >> > only the DEF (default value) argument be used. > > ^^^^ > >> > >> I thought the argument was "INITIAL-INPUT in too > >> intrusive in the minibuffer, most notably, when > >> it's not what the user wants, and then the hassle > >> with C-a C-k and such begins". > > > > That's an argument about UI interaction style. And > > the "only" is the real key to what's misguided. >=20 > I agree that there are cases where INITIAL-INPUT still has its place, > but as I said, I remember the reason for phasing it out was different > than stylistic preferences. What you say you remember states a choice of one style over another. And it's not a choice by an individual user or the coder of an individual `completing-read' invocation. So would be making such a choice just as the default style (behavior). Deprecating something is not the same thing as choosing another thing as just the default behavior. > > `completing-read' is extremely general, allowing for many different > > interactions for many different kinds of use cases. >=20 > True, unfortunately. Why "unfortunately"? There are lots of functions that do more specific kinds of read with completion. `completing-read' is a very general function, on purpose. And it's been getting more and more general. And there's `read-from-minibuffer', which is even more general. `read-file-name' is a specific kind of completion, but one which is also still quite general, allowing multiple behaviors. > > BTW, independently of this discussion (and even > > independently of completion), there should be a > > single key to empty the minibuffer. (Icicles > > has provided `M-k' for that forever.) >=20 > I presume you've suggested this addition to Emacs? I did. I think I've pretty much suggested everything I've ever implemented. I'd rather have Emacs implement, test, and maintain it than do so myself, if possible. ;-) > >> As a personal note, the INITIAL-INPUT was something in AUCTeX which > >> bugged for me for a long time, especially in queries for length > >> arguments. I can't say how often I've deleted "1.0\linewidth" in my > >> life. > > > > That you don't want INITIAL-INPUT is one thing. > > That some library might not make a good decision > > about its use is another thing. > > > > Whether INITIAL-INPUT should be deprecated is > > a third thing - something completely different. >=20 > Not sure about this one. I mean, Emacs has a lot of > external (i.e., not maintained in core) libraries and > it would be a major advantage if they all feel the > same when you use them. That's a different question. > Hence, I understand the general direction of > "deprecating a feature" to streamline the look&feel, If it's about the look&feel, and not about the need to maintain something, then it's enough to set the default behavior. That's not deprecating another behavior. > but you're still free to use the old feature if you > think it has a added value from a user perspective. Sure. With the risk that what's deprecated might be desupported at some point. (At which point you can always choose to copy the old code and continue to use it. With the bother of dealing with incompatibilities, inconsistencies, and having to keep some bits synchronized...)=20