From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Masterson Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: use-package :after ?? Date: Sun, 14 May 2023 23:03:19 -0700 Message-ID: References: <83fs87c8wg.fsf@gnu.org> <831qjn75tw.fsf@gnu.org> <83mt2a3xap.fsf@gnu.org> <837cte3tfh.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="16754"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.1 (gnu/linux) Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon May 15 08:04:08 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pyRJX-0004BC-7x for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 15 May 2023 08:04:07 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pyRJ5-0006M9-MM; 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envelope-from=outlook_98C99531806B1C22@outlook.com; helo=NAM11-CO1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com X-Spam_score_int: 6 X-Spam_score: 0.6 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (0.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD=1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.249, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:143612 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: David Masterson >> Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org >> Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 23:54:06 -0700 >> >> > In any case, if there's something unclear here, the problem might be >> > with the description of :demand, not with :after -- the node "Forcing >> > loading" says :demand is overridden by :defer, but says nothing about >> > :after. >> >> Possibly, but the above (made up) example was an attempt to determine if >> :after might effect when the loads occur due to a side effect. Perhaps >> this side effect might be important in certain cases. >> >> Oh, that Info node says :demand is overridden by :defer, but docstring >> for use-package-always-defer says assume :defer unless :demand is used. > > Are we still talking about :after? My questions were meant to figure > out whether :after's documentation needs some improvements. > > If everything is clear with :after, and we are talking about :demand > and :defer, let's talk about those two. The text you quote is about > use-package-always-defer, not about :defer, so how is that a > contradiction to whether :defer overrides :demand? Question: why would anyone include both :defer and :demand in one use-package? Syntactically, it's appropriate to answer the question of which takes precedence. Semantically, though, most users wouldn't do that. My question goes to the effect of :after in connecting a tree of packages that may have been setup with some :demand and some :defer. This can occur by direct usage of :demand and :defer *or* by setting use-package-always-defer and overriding it with :demand in some packages. Example: (use-package a :defer t :after b) (use-package b :demand t :after c) (use-package c :defer t) Does b force the loading of a and/or c because of :after and the mixed :demand/:defer? Or is b forced to defer? The potential (lack of?) side-effects here should be mentioned as it might effect on :config for a, b, or c. -- David Masterson