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From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>
To: Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support>
Cc: Gregory Heytings <gregory@heytings.org>,
	"emacs-devel@gnu.org" <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
Subject: RE: [External] : Re: Concern about new binding.
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2021 17:35:44 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <SA2PR10MB4474C8E8873C2060437AE784F38B9@SA2PR10MB4474.namprd10.prod.outlook.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <YCY1UdcjcpCww097@protected.rcdrun.com>

> > > | C-x j         | C-o j         |
> > > | C-x j = f     | C-o j = f     |
> > > ...
> >
> > You don't seem to be hearing that I want _more_
> > than just reserving one prefix key, `C-o'.

... <long reply about why `C-o' shouldn't be changed>

Why that reply to my message?  The point of my
message was simply that we should not reserve _only
one key_ for 3rd party use.  We should reserve more
than one, and the keys to reserve, to start with,
are those that are not yet bound.

I am NOT the one who started all the posts about
which keys already bound by default to reserve for
3rd-party use.  _MY_ proposal was instead to start
by reserving for 3rd-party use all keys currently
_NOT_ bound by default.  That's a completely
different approach.

It's Gregory who made a counter proposal to instead
reserve _only one_ prefix key for that, and also
changed to proposing, for that purpose, that Emacs
give up some key _already bound_.  And down the
rabbit hole we went...
___

I did say, as a _parallel_ idea, that Emacs could
also likely benefit from restructuring of existing
default key bindings.

I made the point that some keys bound by default to
repeatable keys are not used for repeatable commands,
and that their commands could usefully be made
repeatable, or those keys could instead be given to
other commands that are naturally repeatable.

And I made the point (and emphasized it _over_ the
point about repeatable commands) that some keys
bound by default to commands that maybe aren't so
useful overall could usefully be changed to prefix
keys instead.

And I made the point that a fair amount of useful
refactoring could be done by moving some commands
that are currently bound by default to bindings
under prefix keys.

But all of that parallel idea about possible changes
to Emacs default key bindings - refactoring - is
completely separate from the proposal I made about
reserving keys for 3rd-party code.
___

My proposal to reserve all currently unbound keys
for 3rd-party code is what I really argued for.  Any
discussion about changing existing key bindings can
go on and on, contentiously, and it is not urgent.

IMO it is more important to impose a moratorium
_now_ on Emacs grabbing more and more unbound keys
for its default bindings.

And the discussion that's ensued from Gregory's
counter proposal has made it all the more urgent to
do what I proposed.  There are suggestions from
that bindings-changes discussion for Emacs to grab
even _more_ unbound keys for default bindings.

Unfortunately, Gregory's counter proposal took over,
and there's (predictably) been a flurry of back &
forth about this, that, or the other key as a
candidate for repurposing.

I specifically wanted to avoid that.  (But yes,
when discussion about this or that key ensued, I 
occasionally added my 2 cents about the key.)

  reply	other threads:[~2021-02-12 17:35 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 294+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <20210202134950.vybbpf3iewbymfjo.ref@Ergus>
2021-02-02 13:49 ` Concern about new binding Ergus
2021-02-02 15:21   ` Kévin Le Gouguec
2021-02-02 18:47     ` Óscar Fuentes
2021-02-02 18:53       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-02 19:00         ` Óscar Fuentes
2021-02-02 19:16           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-02 20:03             ` Óscar Fuentes
2021-02-02 22:14             ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-03  3:35               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-03  4:44                 ` Drew Adams
2021-02-03  5:36                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-03 16:03                     ` Drew Adams
2021-02-03 16:37                       ` Stefan Monnier
2021-02-03 17:02                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-05  5:46                   ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-05  7:54                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-05 10:04                       ` Robert Pluim
2021-02-05 11:34                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-05 18:27                         ` Drew Adams
2021-02-07  5:33                         ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-07 13:22                           ` Robert Pluim
2021-02-07 14:54                             ` Ergus
2021-02-07 18:44                           ` Drew Adams
2021-02-07  5:59                         ` Yuri Khan
2021-02-05 16:55                     ` Drew Adams
2021-02-02 19:07         ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-02 19:14           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-05  5:46         ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-05  7:11           ` Sean Whitton
2021-02-05 12:36             ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-05 18:31               ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-07  5:33             ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-07 18:19               ` Sean Whitton
2021-02-08  3:43                 ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-08  5:41                   ` Matt Armstrong
2021-02-08  6:06                     ` Sean Whitton
2021-02-08 15:14                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-08 18:00                         ` Sean Whitton
2021-02-08 17:56                       ` Matt Armstrong
2021-02-09  6:03                     ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-09 16:22                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-08  6:11                   ` Sean Whitton
2021-02-12  9:29               ` Jean Louis
2021-02-13  3:26                 ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-13 11:32                   ` Rmail filter, or using sieve - was " Jean Louis
2021-02-05  8:02           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-05  8:46             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-05 10:21               ` Robert Pluim
2021-02-07  5:43               ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-07 15:07                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-08  3:44                   ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-08 15:09                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-07  5:33             ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-02 22:07       ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-03  5:52     ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-03  6:08       ` Kévin Le Gouguec
2021-02-03  7:05         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-03 16:12           ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-03 17:13             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-03 18:01               ` spacibba--- via Emacs development discussions.
2021-02-03 18:14                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-03 22:16                   ` Ergus
2021-02-04  0:41                     ` Stefan Kangas
2021-02-04  7:00                       ` Ergus
2021-02-04 15:05                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-04 15:56                           ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-04 16:28                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-04 16:42                               ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-05  5:49                               ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-04 16:46                             ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-04 17:55                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-04 19:29                                 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-04 20:23                                   ` Joost Kremers
2021-02-04 20:52                                     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-05 15:58                                       ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2021-02-06  9:57                                         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-04 21:00                                   ` Kévin Le Gouguec
2021-02-04 21:15                                     ` Thibaut Verron
2021-02-04 22:02                                       ` Kévin Le Gouguec
2021-02-12  9:17                                         ` Jean Louis
2021-02-12 17:28                                           ` Kévin Le Gouguec
2021-02-04 21:15                                   ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-04 22:12                                     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-05  0:45                                       ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-05  4:13                                         ` Karl Fogel
2021-02-05  7:27                                           ` Jose A. Ortega Ruiz
2021-02-05 23:38                                             ` Karl Fogel
2021-02-06  1:36                                               ` jao
2021-02-06  2:31                                                 ` Karl Fogel
2021-02-12  9:07                                               ` Jean Louis
2021-02-12 13:27                                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-05 18:22                                           ` Drew Adams
2021-02-12  8:53                                           ` Jean Louis
2021-02-12  9:08                                             ` Thibaut Verron
2021-02-04 22:24                                     ` Juri Linkov
2021-02-05  8:59                                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-05  9:12                                         ` Juri Linkov
2021-02-06  9:56                                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-06 10:09                                             ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-06 18:24                                             ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-06 19:20                                             ` Juri Linkov
2021-02-07 12:08                                               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-07 12:39                                                 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-07 14:52                                                   ` Ergus
2021-02-07 20:44                                                     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-08  5:49                                                       ` Teemu Likonen
2021-02-07 18:43                                                   ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-07 23:57                                                     ` Ergus
2021-02-08  1:18                                                       ` Drew Adams
2021-02-10  8:49                                                         ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-02-09 23:22                                                   ` Karthik Chikmagalur
2021-02-15 18:15                                                     ` Sean Whitton
2021-02-16  2:13                                                       ` Karthik Chikmagalur
2021-02-16  5:37                                                         ` Sean Whitton
2021-02-06 19:32                                             ` Sean Whitton
2021-02-06 19:58                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-06 20:09                                                 ` Sean Whitton
2021-02-06 20:20                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-06 20:28                                                     ` Sean Whitton
2021-02-06 20:37                                               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-06 20:44                                                 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-06 20:49                                                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-06 21:00                                                     ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-06 21:02                                                     ` Andreas Schwab
2021-02-06 20:59                                                 ` Sean Whitton
2021-02-05  9:14                                         ` Thibaut Verron
2021-02-05 12:39                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-04 23:20                                     ` Jose A. Ortega Ruiz
2021-02-05  0:46                                       ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-06  2:37                                         ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-05  7:22                                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-05  7:51                                         ` jao
2021-02-04 18:02                               ` Sean Whitton
2021-02-04 18:08                               ` 28.0.50; Move revert-buffer global binding into a prefix map Sean Whitton
2021-02-04 19:49                                 ` bug#46300: [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-07 12:31                                 ` bug#46300: " Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-07 18:41                                   ` bug#46300: [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-07 18:41                                   ` Drew Adams
2021-02-07 12:31                                 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-05  5:13                               ` Concern about new binding Ergus
2021-02-06  7:28                               ` Teemu Likonen
2021-02-06  9:40                                 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-06  9:59                                   ` Teemu Likonen
2021-02-04 16:06                           ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-05  5:49                             ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-05  8:16                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-05  9:11                                 ` Thibaut Verron
2021-02-05 11:15                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-05 11:35                                     ` Thibaut Verron
2021-02-05 12:55                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-05 18:31                                     ` Drew Adams
2021-02-05 18:24                                 ` Drew Adams
2021-02-05 18:46                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-05 19:41                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-07  5:33                                 ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-07 15:05                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-07 20:12                                     ` Drew Adams
2021-02-08  3:44                                     ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-05  9:21                               ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-05  9:38                                 ` Joost Kremers
2021-02-05 10:42                                   ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-05 18:29                                     ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-06  1:32                                     ` Joost Kremers
2021-02-06 10:59                                       ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-06 12:08                                       ` Andreas Schwab
2021-02-05 10:51                                   ` Thibaut Verron
2021-02-05 18:30                                     ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-05 18:28                                   ` Drew Adams
2021-02-12  7:34                                     ` Jean Louis
2021-02-05 11:21                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-05 12:07                                   ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-05 12:39                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-05 12:39                                     ` Thibaut Verron
2021-02-05 12:41                                       ` Thibaut Verron
2021-02-06 15:23                                     ` Stefan Kangas
2021-02-06 18:19                                       ` Ergus
2021-02-12  9:47                                       ` Jean Louis
2021-02-05 18:31                                   ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-05 19:14                                   ` Ergus via Emacs development discussions.
2021-02-05 19:43                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-05 23:57                                     ` chad
2021-02-05 18:26                                 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-05 20:26                                   ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-05 20:54                                     ` Drew Adams
2021-02-05 21:41                                       ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-05 22:43                                         ` Drew Adams
2021-02-05 23:38                                           ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-06  0:45                                             ` Drew Adams
2021-02-06  9:29                                               ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-06 18:09                                                 ` Drew Adams
2021-02-12  7:59                                                   ` Jean Louis
2021-02-12 17:35                                                     ` Drew Adams [this message]
2021-02-12  8:21                                                   ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-02-12  9:09                                                     ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-12 11:26                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-12 15:11                                                       ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-02-12 15:30                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-12 16:56                                                         ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-12 17:37                                                           ` Drew Adams
2021-02-12 18:25                                                             ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-12 21:41                                                           ` Super key in console? Jean Louis
2021-02-14 18:43                                                           ` [External] : Re: Concern about new binding Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-02-14 19:14                                                             ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-15 10:57                                                               ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-02-15 11:45                                                                 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-15 16:19                                                                   ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-02-15 13:44                                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-02-12 17:36                                                     ` Drew Adams
2021-02-14 18:43                                                       ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-02-13  1:20                                                     ` Karthik Chikmagalur
2021-02-13 10:55                                                       ` Jean Louis
2021-02-13  8:22                                                     ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-02-07  5:43                                 ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-12  8:35                                 ` Jean Louis
2021-02-12  8:19                     ` [External] : " Jean Louis
2021-02-12 11:19                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-12  8:05                   ` Jean Louis
2021-02-04  7:39             ` Joost Kremers
2021-02-02 16:28   ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-02 16:50   ` Karl Fogel
2021-02-02 17:33     ` Invoking Magit (was: Concern about new binding) Stefan Monnier
2021-02-02 18:29       ` Invoking Magit Karl Fogel
2021-02-02 19:59         ` Stefan Monnier
2021-02-02 22:49           ` Karl Fogel
2021-02-02 17:45     ` Concern about new binding Thibaut Verron
2021-02-02 18:04       ` Sean Whitton
2021-02-02 18:52         ` Karl Fogel
2021-02-02 18:51       ` Karl Fogel
2021-02-02 20:02         ` Thibaut Verron
2021-02-02 18:56       ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2021-02-05  5:46       ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-02 22:10   ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-02 22:22     ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-03  1:02       ` Ergus
2021-02-03  2:32         ` Drew Adams
2021-02-03  0:56     ` Ergus
2021-02-03  3:28       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-03  3:58         ` Ergus
2021-02-03  5:17           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-03  7:40     ` martin rudalics
2021-02-03  9:36       ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-03 11:06         ` martin rudalics
2021-02-04  5:39           ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-03  5:52   ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-03  9:37     ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-03 10:50       ` Robert Pluim
2021-02-03 11:12         ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-02-03 11:20           ` Andreas Schwab
2021-02-03 11:27             ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-02-03 11:43               ` Andreas Schwab
2021-02-03 12:51                 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-02-03 13:15                   ` Thibaut Verron
2021-02-03 15:00                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-03 15:13                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-03 16:29                         ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-03 17:12                           ` Yuan Fu
2021-02-03 17:24                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-03 16:27                       ` Drew Adams
2021-02-03 17:17                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-04  5:46                           ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-04 15:02                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-05  5:50                               ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-05  7:12                                 ` Sean Whitton
2021-02-05  8:30                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-03 16:23                     ` Drew Adams
2021-02-04  5:48                     ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-03 13:31                   ` Andreas Schwab
2021-02-03 13:43                     ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-02-03 14:10                       ` Andreas Schwab
2021-02-04  5:47                       ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-03 16:21                   ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-03 16:19               ` Drew Adams
2021-02-03 16:18             ` Drew Adams
2021-02-03 16:16           ` Drew Adams
2021-02-04 17:03           ` Juri Linkov
2021-02-03 11:31         ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2021-02-04  5:39           ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-04  8:31             ` Robert Pluim
2021-02-03 16:15         ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-04  0:41       ` Stefan Kangas
2021-02-04  5:39       ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-03 19:22     ` Sean Whitton
2021-02-04  5:41       ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-04  8:49         ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-04  8:52           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-04  9:09             ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-04  9:49               ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-04 10:10                 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-04 10:20                   ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-04 10:25                     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-04 12:26                       ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-04 15:16                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-04 11:08                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-04 12:26                   ` Gregory Heytings

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