From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: RE: [External] : Re: not good proposal: "C-z " reserved for users Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 16:58:36 +0000 Message-ID: References: <3966473cc17dcc4d4a30@heytings.org> (message from Gregory Heytings on Wed, 10 Feb 2021 19:31:37 +0000) <87y2fv2g5o.fsf@robertthorpeconsulting.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="16662"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: "help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org" , "bugs@gnu.support" To: Robert Thorpe , Gregory Heytings Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Feb 11 18:04:37 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lAFOP-0004FC-4Y for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; 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envelope-from=drew.adams@oracle.com; helo=aserp2130.oracle.com X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:127820 Archived-At: [Removed bugs@gnu.support from cc list. Why was it included?] > Here are my opinions on these things. >=20 > * Moratorium on New Emacs Keybindings. >=20 > At present there's lot of work going on outside of core Emacs. I think > it makes sense for core Emacs not to use too many keybindings. I can > see the sense the argument Drew Adams makes. >=20 > If a *general* moratorium isn't possible, then how about a more > specific one? How about applying it only to certain keymaps > or prefix keys. We shouldn't assume from the get-go that a more general hands-off isn't possible. (I know you said "if". But Emacs devel _can_ sometimes be moved by what its users say they want.) > * A Prefix-Key for Global Third-Party Packages. >=20 > I think this is a good idea too. Picking the > right key is a problem. 1. Limiting to one key is, well, unnecessary, premature limiting. 2. It's not a great idea to couple (1) this suggestion of reserving a single key with (2) a proposal to repurpose a key that's already bound. #2 just complicates things. The entire thread on emacs-devel has been somewhat hijacked now, and turned into discussions about particular keys that might be changed, with people chiming in about not wanting some key they use to be lost. It's far smarter to reserve keys that do NOT already have default bindings. There are a few such, still free. We should keep them free (no default bindings), reserving them for 3rd-party code (and of course for users - users can ALWAYS change any keys for themselves). =20 > ** Which Key to Use? See previous. Don't start by proposing to change any keys already bound by default. Start by getting Emacs dev to reserve some that are NOT already bound. Skip, at least to start out with, all the back-&-forth about this or that key that X thinks is useless and Y thinks is essential and uses all day long every day. Don't mix up the need to save free keys with the possibility that some keys already bound could be put to better use.