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From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>
To: Joost Kremers <joostkremers@fastmail.fm>,
	"emacs-devel@gnu.org" <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
Subject: RE: [External] : Re: Concern about new binding.
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2021 18:28:28 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <SA2PR10MB4474B43A7772CF40EFB643A9F3B29@SA2PR10MB4474.namprd10.prod.outlook.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <878s82esdi.fsf@fastmail.fm>

> Perhaps a better way to update the documented key
> binding conventions is to add the rule that packages
> should generally not create global key bindings.

As I mentioned earlier, my position on that is
that (1) we can document that it's generally a
good idea for 3rd-party code to only suggest
such bindings, and not actually create them,
but (2) there's no convention that 3rd-party
code should not or must not create such bindings.

What will happen, if we try a more draconian
convention, is that 3rd-party code will add
minor modes which wouldn't otherwise have
existed (i.e., created just to provide bindings).

And then we have the same potential problem, but
just playing out as competition between minor
modes that are active at the same time.

> Reserving keys for external packages won't solve
> the fundamental problem here: two external
> packages may still decide to use the same key
> bindings, causing similar conflicts for users
> that install both.

I agree.  Except that I don't consider that to be
the fundamental problem here.  And I don't even
think it is much of a potential problem, though
I recognize that it exists.

The fundamental problem here, IMO, is Emacs
itself grabbing more and more new default keys,
restricting the space of keys available for
3rd-party libraries.

Competition for keys among 3rd parties is much
less of a problem, I think.  When Emacs grabs a
key by default, no package wants to bind that
key - it's effectively lost to 3rd-party code.



  parent reply	other threads:[~2021-02-05 18:28 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 294+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <20210202134950.vybbpf3iewbymfjo.ref@Ergus>
2021-02-02 13:49 ` Concern about new binding Ergus
2021-02-02 15:21   ` Kévin Le Gouguec
2021-02-02 18:47     ` Óscar Fuentes
2021-02-02 18:53       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-02 19:00         ` Óscar Fuentes
2021-02-02 19:16           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-02 20:03             ` Óscar Fuentes
2021-02-02 22:14             ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-03  3:35               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-03  4:44                 ` Drew Adams
2021-02-03  5:36                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-03 16:03                     ` Drew Adams
2021-02-03 16:37                       ` Stefan Monnier
2021-02-03 17:02                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-05  5:46                   ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-05  7:54                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-05 10:04                       ` Robert Pluim
2021-02-05 11:34                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-05 18:27                         ` Drew Adams
2021-02-07  5:33                         ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-07 13:22                           ` Robert Pluim
2021-02-07 14:54                             ` Ergus
2021-02-07 18:44                           ` Drew Adams
2021-02-07  5:59                         ` Yuri Khan
2021-02-05 16:55                     ` Drew Adams
2021-02-02 19:07         ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-02 19:14           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-05  5:46         ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-05  7:11           ` Sean Whitton
2021-02-05 12:36             ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-05 18:31               ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-07  5:33             ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-07 18:19               ` Sean Whitton
2021-02-08  3:43                 ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-08  5:41                   ` Matt Armstrong
2021-02-08  6:06                     ` Sean Whitton
2021-02-08 15:14                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-08 18:00                         ` Sean Whitton
2021-02-08 17:56                       ` Matt Armstrong
2021-02-09  6:03                     ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-09 16:22                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-08  6:11                   ` Sean Whitton
2021-02-12  9:29               ` Jean Louis
2021-02-13  3:26                 ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-13 11:32                   ` Rmail filter, or using sieve - was " Jean Louis
2021-02-05  8:02           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-05  8:46             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-05 10:21               ` Robert Pluim
2021-02-07  5:43               ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-07 15:07                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-08  3:44                   ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-08 15:09                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-07  5:33             ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-02 22:07       ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-03  5:52     ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-03  6:08       ` Kévin Le Gouguec
2021-02-03  7:05         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-03 16:12           ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-03 17:13             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-03 18:01               ` spacibba--- via Emacs development discussions.
2021-02-03 18:14                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-03 22:16                   ` Ergus
2021-02-04  0:41                     ` Stefan Kangas
2021-02-04  7:00                       ` Ergus
2021-02-04 15:05                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-04 15:56                           ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-04 16:28                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-04 16:42                               ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-05  5:49                               ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-04 16:46                             ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-04 17:55                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-04 19:29                                 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-04 20:23                                   ` Joost Kremers
2021-02-04 20:52                                     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-05 15:58                                       ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2021-02-06  9:57                                         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-04 21:00                                   ` Kévin Le Gouguec
2021-02-04 21:15                                     ` Thibaut Verron
2021-02-04 22:02                                       ` Kévin Le Gouguec
2021-02-12  9:17                                         ` Jean Louis
2021-02-12 17:28                                           ` Kévin Le Gouguec
2021-02-04 21:15                                   ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-04 22:12                                     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-05  0:45                                       ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-05  4:13                                         ` Karl Fogel
2021-02-05  7:27                                           ` Jose A. Ortega Ruiz
2021-02-05 23:38                                             ` Karl Fogel
2021-02-06  1:36                                               ` jao
2021-02-06  2:31                                                 ` Karl Fogel
2021-02-12  9:07                                               ` Jean Louis
2021-02-12 13:27                                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-05 18:22                                           ` Drew Adams
2021-02-12  8:53                                           ` Jean Louis
2021-02-12  9:08                                             ` Thibaut Verron
2021-02-04 22:24                                     ` Juri Linkov
2021-02-05  8:59                                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-05  9:12                                         ` Juri Linkov
2021-02-06  9:56                                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-06 10:09                                             ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-06 18:24                                             ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-06 19:20                                             ` Juri Linkov
2021-02-07 12:08                                               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-07 12:39                                                 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-07 14:52                                                   ` Ergus
2021-02-07 20:44                                                     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-08  5:49                                                       ` Teemu Likonen
2021-02-07 18:43                                                   ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-07 23:57                                                     ` Ergus
2021-02-08  1:18                                                       ` Drew Adams
2021-02-10  8:49                                                         ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-02-09 23:22                                                   ` Karthik Chikmagalur
2021-02-15 18:15                                                     ` Sean Whitton
2021-02-16  2:13                                                       ` Karthik Chikmagalur
2021-02-16  5:37                                                         ` Sean Whitton
2021-02-06 19:32                                             ` Sean Whitton
2021-02-06 19:58                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-06 20:09                                                 ` Sean Whitton
2021-02-06 20:20                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-06 20:28                                                     ` Sean Whitton
2021-02-06 20:37                                               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-06 20:44                                                 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-06 20:49                                                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-06 21:00                                                     ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-06 21:02                                                     ` Andreas Schwab
2021-02-06 20:59                                                 ` Sean Whitton
2021-02-05  9:14                                         ` Thibaut Verron
2021-02-05 12:39                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-04 23:20                                     ` Jose A. Ortega Ruiz
2021-02-05  0:46                                       ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-06  2:37                                         ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-05  7:22                                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-05  7:51                                         ` jao
2021-02-04 18:02                               ` Sean Whitton
2021-02-04 18:08                               ` 28.0.50; Move revert-buffer global binding into a prefix map Sean Whitton
2021-02-04 19:49                                 ` bug#46300: [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-07 12:31                                 ` bug#46300: " Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-07 12:31                                 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-07 18:41                                   ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-07 18:41                                   ` bug#46300: " Drew Adams
2021-02-05  5:13                               ` Concern about new binding Ergus
2021-02-06  7:28                               ` Teemu Likonen
2021-02-06  9:40                                 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-06  9:59                                   ` Teemu Likonen
2021-02-04 16:06                           ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-05  5:49                             ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-05  8:16                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-05  9:11                                 ` Thibaut Verron
2021-02-05 11:15                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-05 11:35                                     ` Thibaut Verron
2021-02-05 12:55                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-05 18:31                                     ` Drew Adams
2021-02-05 18:24                                 ` Drew Adams
2021-02-05 18:46                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-05 19:41                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-07  5:33                                 ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-07 15:05                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-07 20:12                                     ` Drew Adams
2021-02-08  3:44                                     ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-05  9:21                               ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-05  9:38                                 ` Joost Kremers
2021-02-05 10:42                                   ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-05 18:29                                     ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-06  1:32                                     ` Joost Kremers
2021-02-06 10:59                                       ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-06 12:08                                       ` Andreas Schwab
2021-02-05 10:51                                   ` Thibaut Verron
2021-02-05 18:30                                     ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-05 18:28                                   ` Drew Adams [this message]
2021-02-12  7:34                                     ` Jean Louis
2021-02-05 11:21                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-05 12:07                                   ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-05 12:39                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-05 12:39                                     ` Thibaut Verron
2021-02-05 12:41                                       ` Thibaut Verron
2021-02-06 15:23                                     ` Stefan Kangas
2021-02-06 18:19                                       ` Ergus
2021-02-12  9:47                                       ` Jean Louis
2021-02-05 18:31                                   ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-05 19:14                                   ` Ergus via Emacs development discussions.
2021-02-05 19:43                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-05 23:57                                     ` chad
2021-02-05 18:26                                 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-05 20:26                                   ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-05 20:54                                     ` Drew Adams
2021-02-05 21:41                                       ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-05 22:43                                         ` Drew Adams
2021-02-05 23:38                                           ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-06  0:45                                             ` Drew Adams
2021-02-06  9:29                                               ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-06 18:09                                                 ` Drew Adams
2021-02-12  7:59                                                   ` Jean Louis
2021-02-12 17:35                                                     ` Drew Adams
2021-02-12  8:21                                                   ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-02-12  9:09                                                     ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-12 11:26                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-12 15:11                                                       ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-02-12 15:30                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-12 16:56                                                         ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-12 17:37                                                           ` Drew Adams
2021-02-12 18:25                                                             ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-12 21:41                                                           ` Super key in console? Jean Louis
2021-02-14 18:43                                                           ` [External] : Re: Concern about new binding Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-02-14 19:14                                                             ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-15 10:57                                                               ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-02-15 11:45                                                                 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-15 16:19                                                                   ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-02-15 13:44                                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-02-12 17:36                                                     ` Drew Adams
2021-02-14 18:43                                                       ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-02-13  1:20                                                     ` Karthik Chikmagalur
2021-02-13 10:55                                                       ` Jean Louis
2021-02-13  8:22                                                     ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-02-07  5:43                                 ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-12  8:35                                 ` Jean Louis
2021-02-12  8:19                     ` [External] : " Jean Louis
2021-02-12 11:19                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-12  8:05                   ` Jean Louis
2021-02-04  7:39             ` Joost Kremers
2021-02-02 16:28   ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-02 16:50   ` Karl Fogel
2021-02-02 17:33     ` Invoking Magit (was: Concern about new binding) Stefan Monnier
2021-02-02 18:29       ` Invoking Magit Karl Fogel
2021-02-02 19:59         ` Stefan Monnier
2021-02-02 22:49           ` Karl Fogel
2021-02-02 17:45     ` Concern about new binding Thibaut Verron
2021-02-02 18:04       ` Sean Whitton
2021-02-02 18:52         ` Karl Fogel
2021-02-02 18:51       ` Karl Fogel
2021-02-02 20:02         ` Thibaut Verron
2021-02-02 18:56       ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2021-02-05  5:46       ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-02 22:10   ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-02 22:22     ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-03  1:02       ` Ergus
2021-02-03  2:32         ` Drew Adams
2021-02-03  0:56     ` Ergus
2021-02-03  3:28       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-03  3:58         ` Ergus
2021-02-03  5:17           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-03  7:40     ` martin rudalics
2021-02-03  9:36       ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-03 11:06         ` martin rudalics
2021-02-04  5:39           ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-03  5:52   ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-03  9:37     ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-03 10:50       ` Robert Pluim
2021-02-03 11:12         ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-02-03 11:20           ` Andreas Schwab
2021-02-03 11:27             ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-02-03 11:43               ` Andreas Schwab
2021-02-03 12:51                 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-02-03 13:15                   ` Thibaut Verron
2021-02-03 15:00                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-03 15:13                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-03 16:29                         ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-03 17:12                           ` Yuan Fu
2021-02-03 17:24                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-03 16:27                       ` Drew Adams
2021-02-03 17:17                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-04  5:46                           ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-04 15:02                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-05  5:50                               ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-05  7:12                                 ` Sean Whitton
2021-02-05  8:30                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-03 16:23                     ` Drew Adams
2021-02-04  5:48                     ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-03 13:31                   ` Andreas Schwab
2021-02-03 13:43                     ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-02-03 14:10                       ` Andreas Schwab
2021-02-04  5:47                       ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-03 16:21                   ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-03 16:19               ` Drew Adams
2021-02-03 16:18             ` Drew Adams
2021-02-03 16:16           ` Drew Adams
2021-02-04 17:03           ` Juri Linkov
2021-02-03 11:31         ` Basil L. Contovounesios
2021-02-04  5:39           ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-04  8:31             ` Robert Pluim
2021-02-03 16:15         ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-04  0:41       ` Stefan Kangas
2021-02-04  5:39       ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-03 19:22     ` Sean Whitton
2021-02-04  5:41       ` Richard Stallman
2021-02-04  8:49         ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-04  8:52           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-04  9:09             ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-04  9:49               ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-04 10:10                 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-04 10:20                   ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-04 10:25                     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-02-04 12:26                       ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-04 15:16                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-04 11:08                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-04 12:26                   ` Gregory Heytings

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