From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: [External] : Re: Concern about new binding. Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2021 18:29:43 +0000 Message-ID: References: <87zh0mmr54.fsf@gmail.com> <87y2g5smya.fsf@gmail.com> <4FF55FBF-573D-4A70-B3FC-682CA25B7ECB@gnu.org> <83lfc53whk.fsf@gnu.org> <20210203180142.seu6o3i6u7jhkyrh@Ergus> <83eehx3to5.fsf@gnu.org> <20210203221628.xgvvxjvh56gyswba@Ergus> <20210204070033.pm4ido4hq7a6twif@Ergus> <83sg6brhyg.fsf@gnu.org> <5588fb25805d486be704@heytings.org> <878s82esdi.fsf@fastmail.fm> <5588fb258085d00c0e72@heytings.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="20540"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: "emacs-devel@gnu.org" To: Gregory Heytings , Joost Kremers Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Feb 05 19:48:04 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1l869D-0005Gv-Gr for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2021 19:48:03 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46442 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l869C-0004gd-D9 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2021 13:48:02 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:36124) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l85rp-0006HQ-PJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2021 13:30:08 -0500 Original-Received: from aserp2120.oracle.com ([141.146.126.78]:51952) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l85ra-0007xo-T6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2021 13:30:04 -0500 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 115IJHFV154752; Fri, 5 Feb 2021 18:29:46 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=SDWGEsR1R8tyUG4IlAgUjMhDW+gOz9tRBvQAlK6ctBM=; b=t/pAW713SvbkZ9XQBi0T2W23O2CIMwsQlWPa+/j8SZhFIi9avbS6wmcObwSwrU91ORGU NL7Hm+AtmuektetFYHy4Z7PKhuQv6aLjyaSS0gkll0L8qzPcJx4eNoC+n7InSRQ+M2Lu gXDib5tmiRbbcW6wXmDU8ZMg8ez7s1PH/CONnBVx6uCyWtov0BOmexn6pMfoJhgxtuNV MyAgabklL09WpX9AolDDGRIUWpPuJ07EJkjde/ilflJHMofHlAqBI3MvD43nDAJhr0bC kErvOuIp0AKyjcX9onfDR+7qCOFDhO0HmHiuxCf4AVxOxArMYRn+Kubgnp07kzFf72oI yw== Original-Received: from aserp3020.oracle.com (aserp3020.oracle.com [141.146.126.70]) by aserp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 36cydmapfm-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 05 Feb 2021 18:29:46 +0000 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3020.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 115IFAL6169934; Fri, 5 Feb 2021 18:29:46 GMT Original-Received: from nam10-mw2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-mw2nam10lp2109.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.55.109]) by aserp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 36dhc4jban-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 05 Feb 2021 18:29:46 +0000 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=KUKSJGsT6cLQPgbPhcTB2i61CpxDEbo4ScJdGAm2d3WSwToeco+uDvLbQ5nMlAm7YB9l3jXk3lHXfaawCAyKHmyxgnycwblwQ2IYRfxTtpLCk+LzoTujPhcLNYW1lZu9JjiXJAkQDLgjLAkoSaIhUC51WR6E+uuh68Yvo2RXgLag3CE7l80OHt/MxjtbB/Ho/2i3ewca3I42LJ3sUi9VfZanFtvabQC7E0x91IrSl+bDjVVUUF/y05TTpdA2sTpvJjOMzMV/MT2AZhkz8e7dBXEa9MXXRPl9RBQkrW/RhMji/oKYGZaZRPodtsMXInnC65sw2ewNck9ijcXFReZxKA== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=SDWGEsR1R8tyUG4IlAgUjMhDW+gOz9tRBvQAlK6ctBM=; b=GmPG+vo1fUDIHy0TlLkrZ4iJs9dKurH0iekoml1Cmlw7Dbir9vJdD7Db/1QifLUekkZjZjTCqRyBf/mgchLr16nK0P0b9aPm/uExYeI/obw2cJt63+Hl48uzaIBOz/x/vLQFEdDqNtul5W3j7T9D3+9qNT0wN9blYAdEQgMw+4NbN3qT3nO532wrDnC0f1buBuPbHy8v3UqCs36/bJfvV6dpf9QVDsdIu+j3XvUulP+NHPV77Kf40+Q8LZBxVhaWHRJyz7ushuvN6tIKoDmCvN3riz0KE3WXZqTSJO1oGwqtkk0k7Mh4tBQepStNw9GFPdHIcQ9z+bztoZhhdpBM6A== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=oracle.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=oracle.com; dkim=pass header.d=oracle.com; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-oracle-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=SDWGEsR1R8tyUG4IlAgUjMhDW+gOz9tRBvQAlK6ctBM=; b=EIpJCvyGPPuPRlP6oRgrho+R9RrTL/UUqhDqIDP1aY/VPLSTQTdZ7mKU/jFTew7LIPgnchH9I3kZ89dnuje6IvfsDAgAI9Gf+U6JVqx7VW/LDg6YNwjIawpgTlrF7MFYoJrQDVwFz8K18m//ondDxwqN2tMliHGrr8MGJ1szUOs= Original-Received: from SA2PR10MB4474.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:806:11b::15) by SN6PR10MB2432.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:805:46::14) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3825.17; Fri, 5 Feb 2021 18:29:43 +0000 Original-Received: from SA2PR10MB4474.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::dc4d:9cd0:2010:daa2]) by SA2PR10MB4474.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::dc4d:9cd0:2010:daa2%7]) with mapi id 15.20.3825.024; Fri, 5 Feb 2021 18:29:43 +0000 Thread-Topic: [External] : Re: Concern about new binding. Thread-Index: AQHW++zeOq8vb8Swe02s3oly9UpLww== In-Reply-To: <5588fb258085d00c0e72@heytings.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US authentication-results: heytings.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;heytings.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=oracle.com; x-originating-ip: [73.170.83.28] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: df9a97c9-5dda-4041-8d54-08d8ca04022c x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: SN6PR10MB2432: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:7219; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:SA2PR10MB4474.namprd10.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(376002)(396003)(346002)(366004)(39860400002)(136003)(66556008)(66476007)(66446008)(64756008)(76116006)(66946007)(8936002)(55016002)(478600001)(2906002)(86362001)(5660300002)(9686003)(83380400001)(7696005)(8676002)(71200400001)(33656002)(6506007)(52536014)(44832011)(26005)(316002)(186003)(4326008)(110136005); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: =?us-ascii?Q?Y373hPV+w7h0YqnRYgmRWMGOcAkZ1mUT9xN23uL2Abjt/hiUlDAcBVlQMxad?= =?us-ascii?Q?h0PqeJgvTFY8WhB4aPJ2IEvzJqa27ns5H3eK/ekab0vUoaHgEQNuK5WZx+lW?= =?us-ascii?Q?WvlsD5iKbJZloK2oUJ+p04rQk6Yut2he7Vt34Z/sYMxxaUA+EoMuDzsrQKv5?= =?us-ascii?Q?7F7ahFTjOS1ROXFPJf2wS/sRyNj+MH5gNkMCZX8RACBuKwKnAm0v36tX4RdM?= =?us-ascii?Q?CbjCJhb9SpM5LAryEWOLu96DqR0RSjPj+MsSHWU3/bR50F1bHQKVp7NPjldf?= =?us-ascii?Q?8qIUKtx3PuvUkZ8zdzPBdry1q+wtR51dV+qlvVlT3Jz52O1IJjVNoEXGb9ih?= =?us-ascii?Q?hXxTCn+HY23T+uOuRsoy5BKNZRaeJ2doUT96vgfKHUmEGfG/Gc9bRGlWDTHn?= =?us-ascii?Q?yX8usOZLQJ+gD6f/IZtjkR0Bdtr76o3fJylqrVMOUbKj/2DyL45FZlFir4b/?= =?us-ascii?Q?ht0WxibaVv13mq5A9CAHupNR29Bfi/BaUz6qSaxi4aTIZLQwUOKoV8w9SpHB?= =?us-ascii?Q?Ef9sAB9mZUGEvHzZDk+40cmuKg9LAfRnJyKzLN9x3A2llBVKA9NszmY/mIQa?= =?us-ascii?Q?mYK/ky5b9xR7FHQrB/ZyAUHvRaHSWAGsugAeJbFvQEm5gkPFWtpA7Rxj6Imf?= =?us-ascii?Q?Sh60 x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SA2PR10MB4474.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: df9a97c9-5dda-4041-8d54-08d8ca04022c X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 05 Feb 2021 18:29:43.7830 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: z4FevCY+NjFN1/aDEUOQFgyyd1/hrti4w0iYmRmgz65AS/tr7dhaM4ZCZkD5PKEKfOhHAEbkL5S0ntHCLuu8qg== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SN6PR10MB2432 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6200 definitions=9885 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 suspectscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxlogscore=882 phishscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2102050114 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6200 definitions=9885 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 priorityscore=1501 impostorscore=0 malwarescore=0 clxscore=1015 spamscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 phishscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 mlxscore=0 suspectscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2102050114 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=141.146.126.78; envelope-from=drew.adams@oracle.com; helo=aserp2120.oracle.com X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:263994 Archived-At: > > Perhaps a better way to update the documented key binding > > conventions is to add the rule that packages should > > generally not create global key bindings. >=20 > That's another solution indeed, but IMO it is not a reasonable one. It > is reasonable for a package to create global bindings, to write its > documentation with these bindings, and for users to install the package > and to access it through these bindings without having to set specific > configuration options beforehand. It is IMO not reasonable to require > from all users to add "global-set-key"s in their configuration before > using a package. >=20 > > Reserving keys for external packages won't solve the fundamental > > problem here: two external packages may still decide to use the > > same key bindings, causing similar conflicts for users that install bot= h. >=20 > That's a similar, but different problem: it's a conflict between > package X and package Y, not a conflict between package X and Emacs. > Moreover the likelihood that two packages use the same keys is much > lower when many keys are available. 100% agreement.