RE: [External] : Re: Concern about new binding.

[Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>]

> > More than that.  Over that time, how often have people
> > asked for such a global binding?
> 
> We never bother ourselves with such questions; never did.  We consider
> ourselves to be aware and familiar enough with the Emacs usage
> landscape to make such decisions without polling users on each and
> every step, 

I think Richard was not talking about polling, there.

I mentioned polling.  He added something else: how
often have users _asked_ for this?  Do we have bug
reports (feature requests) for it?  Any?  Many?

(I too had mentioned this point earlier, though not
in the mail that Richard replied too.)

> because doing so would slow down development to an
> unbearable crawl.  I always believed that at least part of the reasons
> we were nominated as maintainers was that people trust us to be
> capable of representing the bulk of Emacs users, and do it well enough
> to avoid too many serious mistakes.

That's true.  I don't think anyone disrespects the
maintainers.  I sure don't.  I'm very appreciative
of the hard work they do - and their judgment, in
general.

In particular, FWIW, I appreciate what some (many?)
might consider to be your conservative push-back
about many proposed changes.  Sometimes I voice an
explicit "+1"; sometimes I say nothing.  But to
myself I often say how lucky we are that you don't
just go along lightly with some new-change proposal.

That said, no one is infallible.  Leaders that
people respect the most often make mistakes.

In this particular case, no one has said that a
"serious mistake" was made.  And we've agreed, I
think, that it's not wrong for someone (especially
a maintainer) in a bug thread to make a change.
And that that change can be reversed, especially
if it's not a big one.

Some of us have argued, in this particular case,
that the decision to give a default binding to
`C-x g' should be reversed - at least pending more
discussion.  That should be possible especially
since the change hasn't been made to a release,
and especially because this "mistake" is _not_ a
serious one.

(What was argued wrt changes made in bug threads
was to avoid changes that range much wider than
the bug or feature request itself.  That's all.
In the current case, moving from a request for
a key for shell buffer reverting to the "need"
for a global key for buffer reverting.)

> In a case such as this one, when one of the maintainers says "this
> makes sense", I expect to hear technical arguments for or against that
> (btw, only agreements were heard when the original decision in this
> case was made), but I do NOT expect to hear "go ask the world because
> you don't really know what you are talking about".

1. I gave technical arguments.  I've even repeated
   them, since.
2. It's not true that only agreements were heard.
   I expressed disagreement from the outset.

> In all the 30 years of my uninterrupted active involvement with Emacs
> development, I don't remember even a single instance of polling users
> before making user-visible decisions.  (I may have missed one or two,
> but it cannot be more than that.)  I'm astonished to hear such demands

Have you heard a "demand" now?  I don't think
you've heard any demands whatsoever.  (Ever.)
Let's not descend into hyperbole, please.

> now.  If this is indeed what's required from Emacs maintainers, I will
> seriously consider resigning, because I cannot in good faith support
> such ridiculous development practices, let alone such level of
> mistrust towards my and Lars's experience and knowhow.

Please don't be so defensive.  No one is
attacking you or Lars.  It's not about you or
Lars or disrespecting the authority or
responsibility of maintainers.  Not at all.

And no, please don't consider resigning.

You've threatened that multiple times over the
years.  I think we're all glad that you've
kept at it.  I can understand the pressure of
the job and its responsibilities.  Know that
your work here is appreciated.  I hope that
knowledge makes a difference.