From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#41129: [External] : bug#41129: outline-mode: New keybindings for demote/promote/move-subtree Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2021 22:01:07 +0000 Message-ID: References: <87k0rx3792.fsf@gnus.org> <87pn1oxs7u.fsf@gnus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="6778"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" To: Howard Melman , "41129@debbugs.gnu.org" <41129@debbugs.gnu.org> Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Jan 29 23:02:33 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1l5bqb-0001gt-3t for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; 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Major modes (like Org) have greater leeway in defining > > keystrokes than minor modes, though -- a minor mode has to be more > > careful not to redefine common keystrokes because there's less of a > > "buy in" from users than with a major mode like Org. > > > > So it might make sense for Org to bind M- > > to something while it'd be too intrusive for > > outline-minor-mode. I agree with Lars, there. A minor mode, even when local to a buffer (not explicitly global), is in a sense "global" - it works across other modes, and needs to play well with them. ___ Not directly related, but I also think it's a no-no for a major mode such as Org to globally bind a key that has no business being used (because useless) outside Org mode. That's the point of bug #46087 (which has received no reply). In the past, Org mode has even countered the key binding guidelines, by binding keys in its major mode map that are supposed to be reserved for minor modes. (I think that after some protest that's now been corrected.) I can understand that Org developers and users would like many keys available by default, but there's also a need to play well with other, non-Org, uses of Emacs. > If I'm correct that the standard cursor movement bindings on > M-, M- you're referring to are word movement > commands, then they also have existing bindings on C- > and C- and are at least very similar to M-f and M-b. Yes. > So perhaps it's ok if outline-minor-mode shadows the > M- flavor of them, particularly if it aligns with > org-mode. Personally, I'd prefer that Emacs not bind `M-left|right' keys by default, including in Outline or Org modes (minor or major). (I bind `M-left|right|up|down' to commands that incrementally move the selected frame.)