Re: hlin@crescentec.com

Re: hlin@crescentec.com

[Benjamin Lewis]

On Fri, 13 Dec 2002, Kevin Rodgers wrote:

> Every message I post to gnu.emacs.help (via news.cis.dfn.de) now results
> in the attached message being mailed to me.  Am I the only one suffering
> from this?  I've sent messages to postmaster@crescentec.com,
> help-gnu-emacs-request@gnu.org, and hlin@crescentec.com asking that the
> user at that site be unsubscribed from the help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org mailing
> list, but to no avail.  What else should I do?

No idea.  I get the same messages when I post via quimby.

-- 
Benjamin Lewis

Now is the time for all good men to come to.
                -- Walt Kelly

Re: hlin@crescentec.com

[David Kastrup]

Kevin Rodgers <kevin.rodgers@ihs.com> writes:

> Every message I post to gnu.emacs.help (via news.cis.dfn.de) now
> results in the attached message being mailed to me.  Am I the only
> one suffering from this?  I've sent messages to
> postmaster@crescentec.com, help-gnu-emacs-request@gnu.org, and
> hlin@crescentec.com asking that the user at that site be
> unsubscribed from the help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org mailing list, but to no
> avail.  What else should I do?

Same here.  I checked the web page of the company and sent the web
manager listed as contact a mail too, and he said he would contact
their mail administrators (whether this will help much, I have no idea
since the respective user probably is subscribed at gnu.org and they
would have to unsubscribe him).  I think was yesterday or two days
ago, and I still get those messages.  The postmaster address seems to
be a black hole.  Perhaps you could try the same: at least there is a
human there which gets the message when people complain.

-- 
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum

Re: hlin@crescentec.com

[Bijan Soleymani]

Kevin Rodgers <kevin.rodgers@ihs.com> writes:

> Every message I post to gnu.emacs.help (via news.cis.dfn.de) now results in the
> attached message being mailed to me.  Am I the only one suffering from this?
> I've sent messages to postmaster@crescentec.com, help-gnu-emacs-request@gnu.org,
> and hlin@crescentec.com asking that the user at that site be unsubscribed from
> the help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org mailing list, but to no avail.  What else should I
> do?
> 
When replying to posts you are probably also sending copies to
people's email addresses. They may not use their real address or their
address may be incorrect. That would cause those mails to bounce back.

Bijan

RE: hlin@crescentec.com

[Bingham, Jay]

In many cases that could be true, I thought that it might be when I
received first hlin rejection message, but in this case it is not true.
I have sent several replies that I am certain were not sent to any
address but the mailing list and I still get that annoying message every
time I send a message to the list.  This appears to be a case of someone
who left a company, probably not on their own volition, who forgot or
did not have the opportunity to cancel their subscription to this list
before they left.  Now the company has canceled/deactivated their email
address and is notifying every one send messages to the list that the
address is not a valid address.
What needs to happen is for the administrators of this list to remove
the offending address since none of us can do that.

-_
J_)
C_)ingham
.    HP - NonStop Austin Software & Services - Software Quality
Assurance
.    Office:  2122                  Phone:  8945
. "Language is the apparel in which your thoughts parade in public.
.  Never clothe them in vulgar and shoddy attire."     -Dr. George W.
Crane-


-----Original Message-----
From: Bijan Soleymani [mailto:bijan@psq.com] 
Sent: Friday, December 13, 2002 3:55 PM
To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
Subject: Re: hlin@crescentec.com

Kevin Rodgers <kevin.rodgers@ihs.com> writes:

> Every message I post to gnu.emacs.help (via news.cis.dfn.de) now
results in the
> attached message being mailed to me.  Am I the only one suffering from
this?
> I've sent messages to postmaster@crescentec.com,
help-gnu-emacs-request@gnu.org,
> and hlin@crescentec.com asking that the user at that site be
unsubscribed from
> the help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org mailing list, but to no avail.  What else
should I
> do?
> 
When replying to posts you are probably also sending copies to
people's email addresses. They may not use their real address or their
address may be incorrect. That would cause those mails to bounce back.

Bijan
_______________________________________________
Help-gnu-emacs mailing list
Help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-gnu-emacs

Re: hlin@crescentec.com

[Stefan Monnier <foo@acm.com>]

>>>>> "David" == David Kastrup <David.Kastrup@t-online.de> writes:
> Same here.  I checked the web page of the company and sent the web
> manager listed as contact a mail too, and he said he would contact
> their mail administrators (whether this will help much, I have no idea
> since the respective user probably is subscribed at gnu.org and they
> would have to unsubscribe him).

The problem is not with the user being subscribed at gnu.org.
The problem with crescentec.com using a brain-dead pseudo-bounce
message and sending it to the wrong address.  If they fix their
software to stop trying to be clever and to just do things the
normal way, then the bounces will be sent to the gnu.org mailing-list
maintainer (rather than to the posters) which will then have a chance
to auto-unsubscribe or do something with it.


        Stefan

Re: hlin@crescentec.com

[Jonathon Isaac Swiderski]

On 13 Dec 2002, Bijan Soleymani wrote:

> When replying to posts you are probably also sending copies to
> people's email addresses. They may not use their real address or their
> address may be incorrect. That would cause those mails to bounce back.

We shall see with this message, but the other messages I've sent to
gnu.emacs.help --- without sending email --- have also resulted in the
described bounceback.

If he is in fact subscribed to the email list version of the group, and
newsgroup messages are posted to the list and vice versa --- as seems to be
the case from the number of double messages where someone posted to both ng
& mail --- then the messages will still be sent to hlin's former address.

>From which it seems reasonable to have the bounceback message forwarded to
the email list's maintainers, whoever they are. . .

-- 
Jonathon Isaac Swiderski \\ dangercat-20@dangercat.net
cs.oberlin.edu/~jswiders  \\  www.dangercat.net/resume

Q: What does the "H" in Jesus H. Christ stand for?
A: Haploid.

Re: hlin@crescentec.com

[Jesper Harder]

Kevin Rodgers <kevin.rodgers@ihs.com> writes:

> Every message I post to gnu.emacs.help (via news.cis.dfn.de) now
> results in the attached message being mailed to me.  What else should
> I do?

*Sigh*, crescentec.com is still broken -- this is getting annoying.
I've now started to report every auto-reply to <http://spamcop.net>.

Maybe they'll be more motivated to fix their broken server when it gets
blacklisted.

Re: hlin@crescentec.com

[Barry Margolin]

In article <m3vg0wla2m.fsf@defun.localdomain>,
Jesper Harder  <harder@myrealbox.com> wrote:
>Kevin Rodgers <kevin.rodgers@ihs.com> writes:
>
>> Every message I post to gnu.emacs.help (via news.cis.dfn.de) now
>> results in the attached message being mailed to me.  What else should
>> I do?
>
>*Sigh*, crescentec.com is still broken -- this is getting annoying.
>I've now started to report every auto-reply to <http://spamcop.net>.
>
>Maybe they'll be more motivated to fix their broken server when it gets
>blacklisted.

What's broken?  The bounce messages just say that the user doesn't exist.
Can't it just be an obsolete entry in the mailing list that the newsgroup
gateways to?  Shouldn't removing him from the list solve the problem?

-- 
Barry Margolin, barmar@genuity.net
Genuity, Woburn, MA
*** DON'T SEND TECHNICAL QUESTIONS DIRECTLY TO ME, post them to newsgroups.
Please DON'T copy followups to me -- I'll assume it wasn't posted to the group.

Re: hlin@crescentec.com

[David Kastrup]

Barry Margolin <barmar@genuity.net> writes:

> In article <m3vg0wla2m.fsf@defun.localdomain>,
> Jesper Harder  <harder@myrealbox.com> wrote:
> >Kevin Rodgers <kevin.rodgers@ihs.com> writes:
> >
> >> Every message I post to gnu.emacs.help (via news.cis.dfn.de) now
> >> results in the attached message being mailed to me.  What else should
> >> I do?
> >
> >*Sigh*, crescentec.com is still broken -- this is getting annoying.
> >I've now started to report every auto-reply to <http://spamcop.net>.
> >
> >Maybe they'll be more motivated to fix their broken server when it gets
> >blacklisted.
> 
> What's broken?  The bounce messages just say that the user doesn't
> exist.

The bounce message contain obvious junk complaint addresses (something
like $postmaster$@missing.domain), the postmaster at their site is a
black hole, and the bounce messages are not sent to the
X-Complaints-To: address, and not to the Reply-To: address, but to the
From: address.  The message that gets sent is stripped of the relevant
headers that could help one determine who the complaint should have
been sent to in the first place.

> Can't it just be an obsolete entry in the mailing list that the
> newsgroup gateways to?  Shouldn't removing him from the list solve
> the problem?

Sure.  It is just that crescentec.com does its utmost to sabotage the
relevant information getting to the right party.

-- 
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum

Re: hlin@crescentec.com

[Tim Haynes]

David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org> writes:

>> >Maybe they'll be more motivated to fix their broken server when it gets
>> >blacklisted.
>> 
>> What's broken? The bounce messages just say that the user doesn't exist.
>
> The bounce message contain obvious junk complaint addresses (something
> like $postmaster$@missing.domain), the postmaster at their site is a
> black hole,

Any domain on the 'Net without a valid postmaster@ (or abuse@, for that
matter) address is a good candidate for submission to
<http://rfc-ignorant.org/>.

> Sure. It is just that crescentec.com does its utmost to sabotage the
> relevant information getting to the right party.

I've noticed this also, whenever it was I last posted on this group. I'm
increasingly of the opinion that news2mail is a Bad thing.

~Tim
-- 
  22:06:57  up 25 days,  6:54,  9 users,  load average: 0.12, 0.13, 0.06
piglet@stirfried.vegetable.org.uk |A Celtic fire, a soul of white
http://piglet.is.dreaming.org     |

Re: hlin@crescentec.com

[Eli Zaretskii]

On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, Tim Haynes wrote:

> I'm increasingly of the opinion that news2mail is a Bad thing.

IMHO, that would unduly discriminate people who cannot use Usenet news 
for some reason.  Not everyone has a good news feed at their disposal, 
you know.