Two new entries in menu-bar's Tools menu

Two new entries in menu-bar's Tools menu

[Eli Zaretskii]

What do people think about the following two additions to the Tools
menu?

Index: lisp/menu-bar.el
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvs/emacs/lisp/menu-bar.el,v
retrieving revision 1.200
diff -c -r1.200 menu-bar.el
*** lisp/menu-bar.el	12 Feb 2002 16:37:11 -0000	1.200
--- lisp/menu-bar.el	13 Feb 2002 19:16:40 -0000
***************
*** 869,878 ****
--- 869,885 ----
    '(menu-item "5x5" 5x5
  	      :help "Fill in all the squares on a 5x5 board"))
  
+ (define-key menu-bar-tools-menu [calculator]
+   '(menu-item "Calculator" calculator
+ 	      :help "Invoke the Emacs built-in scientific calculator"))
  (define-key menu-bar-tools-menu [calendar]
    '(menu-item "Display Calendar" calendar))
  (define-key menu-bar-tools-menu [speedbar]
    '(menu-item "Display Speedbar" speedbar-frame-mode))
+ 
+ (define-key menu-bar-tools-menu [separator-net]
+   '("--"))
+ 
  (define-key menu-bar-tools-menu [directory-search]
    '(menu-item "Directory Search" eudc-tools-menu
  	      :help "Query directory servers via LDAP, CCSO PH/QI or BBDB"))
***************
*** 923,928 ****
--- 930,938 ----
  
  (define-key menu-bar-tools-menu [separator-spell]
    '("--"))
+ (define-key menu-bar-tools-menu [flyspell]
+   '(menu-item "Toggle On-the-fly Spelling" flyspell-mode
+ 	      :help "When ON, highlights misspelled words as you type"))
  
  (define-key menu-bar-tools-menu [spell]
    '(menu-item "Spell Checking" ispell-menu-map))

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Re: Two new entries in menu-bar's Tools menu

[Kim F. Storm]

"Eli Zaretskii" <eliz@is.elta.co.il> writes:

> What do people think about the following two additions to the Tools
> menu?
> 
> + (define-key menu-bar-tools-menu [calculator]
> +   '(menu-item "Calculator" calculator
> + 	      :help "Invoke the Emacs built-in scientific calculator"))

Good idea.

> + (define-key menu-bar-tools-menu [flyspell]
> +   '(menu-item "Toggle On-the-fly Spelling" flyspell-mode
> + 	      :help "When ON, highlights misspelled words as you type"))

Shouldn't that be on the Options menu?

-- 
Kim F. Storm <storm@cua.dk> http://www.cua.dk


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Re: Two new entries in menu-bar's Tools menu

[Pavel Janík]

   From: storm@cua.dk (Kim F. Storm)
   Date: 13 Feb 2002 22:32:32 +0100

   > > + (define-key menu-bar-tools-menu [calculator]
   > > +   '(menu-item "Calculator" calculator
   > > + 	      :help "Invoke the Emacs built-in scientific calculator"))
   > 
   > Good idea.

I agree.

   > > + (define-key menu-bar-tools-menu [flyspell]
   > > +   '(menu-item "Toggle On-the-fly Spelling" flyspell-mode
   > > + 	      :help "When ON, highlights misspelled words as you type"))
   > 
   > Shouldn't that be on the Options menu?

The problem here is that we have things connected with spelling in Tools
menu. Also note, that flyspell-mode is not customizable option. It is
normal minor mode which already can be activated via mouse-3 menu on the
mode-line. I think that Tools menu is the right place for this if we want
it in the menu at all.
-- 
Pavel Janík

Follow each decision as closely as possible with its associated action.
                  --  The Elements of Programming Style (Kernighan & Plaugher)

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Re: Two new entries in menu-bar's Tools menu

[Per Abrahamsen]

Pavel@Janik.cz (Pavel Janík) writes:

>    > > + (define-key menu-bar-tools-menu [flyspell]
>    > > +   '(menu-item "Toggle On-the-fly Spelling" flyspell-mode
>    > > + 	      :help "When ON, highlights misspelled words as you type"))
>    > 
>    > Shouldn't that be on the Options menu?
>
> The problem here is that we have things connected with spelling in Tools
> menu. Also note, that flyspell-mode is not customizable option. It is
> normal minor mode which already can be activated via mouse-3 menu on the
> mode-line.

That makes it similar to truncate-lines, which is not saved, yet is on
the options menu.

But I agree it is more natural on the Spell Checking menu.

> I think that Tools menu is the right place for this if we want
> it in the menu at all.

Does it make sense to activate it from text-mode-hook?  In that case,
we could treat it like auto-fill-mode.

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Re: Two new entries in menu-bar's Tools menu

[Richard Stallman]

    Also note, that flyspell-mode is not customizable option. 

That seems like a bug to me.  Could you make it customizable?

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Re: Two new entries in menu-bar's Tools menu

[Per Abrahamsen]

Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

>     Also note, that flyspell-mode is not customizable option. 
>
> That seems like a bug to me.  Could you make it customizable?

It is already an option for text-mode-hook, like turn-on-auto-fill
is. 

It is very conceptually very similar to auto-fill-mode as it only
makes sense in text-mode derivatives.  

If it is to be made a global option, we should probably emulate the
code for toggle-text-mode-auto-fill.

Hmm.. Should toggle-text-mode-auto-fill be made a customize option?
And maybe rename it to global-auto-fill-mode?  It could be implemented
with custom :get and :set methods.

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Re: Two new entries in menu-bar's Tools menu

[Stefan Monnier]

> Hmm.. Should toggle-text-mode-auto-fill be made a customize option?
> And maybe rename it to global-auto-fill-mode?  It could be implemented
> with custom :get and :set methods.

Defining `toggle-text-mode-auto-fill' with a (global) `define-minor-mode'
will do all that automatically.


	Stefan


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Re: Two new entries in menu-bar's Tools menu

[Richard Stallman]

    >     Also note, that flyspell-mode is not customizable option. 
    >
    > That seems like a bug to me.  Could you make it customizable?

    It is already an option for text-mode-hook, like turn-on-auto-fill
    is. 

turn-on-auto-fill is a function, not an option, so I am confused
and not sure what you meant to say.

    It is very conceptually very similar to auto-fill-mode as it only
    makes sense in text-mode derivatives.  

Auto Fill mode can be used in programming language modes; it is not
for Text mode derivatives only.  Maybe Flyspell mode makes sense in
some other modes, too.  But you are right that they are similar cases
and both mainly used in text modes.

So I think the Options menu should probably have an item that controls
use of Flyspell mode in Text derivatives, just as it has one that
controls use of Auto Full in Text derivatives.

    Hmm.. Should toggle-text-mode-auto-fill be made a customize option?
    And maybe rename it to global-auto-fill-mode?  It could be implemented
    with custom :get and :set methods.

Maybe, but I wonder: is it possible to provide a more general
customization facility for controlling minor mode enablement
in various major modes?  That might provide a very clean way
to customize where you do or don't want Auto Fill, or Flyspell,
or whatever.


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Re: Two new entries in menu-bar's Tools menu

[Per Abrahamsen]

Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

> turn-on-auto-fill is a function, not an option, so I am confused
> and not sure what you meant to say.

I was refering to this:

(defcustom text-mode-hook nil
  "Normal hook run when entering Text mode and many related modes."
  :type 'hook
  :options '(turn-on-auto-fill flyspell-mode)
  :group 'data)

When you customize text-mode-hook, turn-on-auto-fill and flyspell-mode
will be listed as checkbox options.

> So I think the Options menu should probably have an item that controls
> use of Flyspell mode in Text derivatives, just as it has one that
> controls use of Auto Full in Text derivatives.

Stefan suggestion of using define-minor-mode sound good.  Will you do
it Stefan?

>     Hmm.. Should toggle-text-mode-auto-fill be made a customize option?
>     And maybe rename it to global-auto-fill-mode?  It could be implemented
>     with custom :get and :set methods.
>
> Maybe, but I wonder: is it possible to provide a more general
> customization facility for controlling minor mode enablement
> in various major modes?  That might provide a very clean way
> to customize where you do or don't want Auto Fill, or Flyspell,
> or whatever.

Maybe.  The :options above give us a "for each major mode, select
which minor modes to turn on.  The opposite "for each minor mode,
select which major modes to turn it on" might be useful too.

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Re: Two new entries in menu-bar's Tools menu

[Richard Stallman]

    (defcustom text-mode-hook nil
      "Normal hook run when entering Text mode and many related modes."
      :type 'hook
      :options '(turn-on-auto-fill flyspell-mode)
      :group 'data)

    When you customize text-mode-hook, turn-on-auto-fill and flyspell-mode
    will be listed as checkbox options.

Now I understand.

Note that the function flyspell-mode is not the right one to use here,
just as the function auto-fill-mode is not right here.  We made a
separate function turn-on-auto-fill which does not ever turn the mode
off.  We ought to make a similar function for turning on flyspell.

      The :options above give us a "for each major mode, select
    which minor modes to turn on.

Yes, but it only lists a couple of minor modes that we specifically
think that many people would want.  So it is not a very general facility,
or else you could say, it is not very much fleshed-out.

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Re: Two new entries in menu-bar's Tools menu

[Richard Stallman]

       > Shouldn't that be on the Options menu?

    The problem here is that we have things connected with spelling in Tools
    menu. Also note, that flyspell-mode is not customizable option. It is
    normal minor mode which already can be activated via mouse-3 menu on the
    mode-line. I think that Tools menu is the right place for this if we want
    it in the menu at all.

Conceptually speaking, it is an option, so it belongs in the options
menu if anywhere.


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Re: Two new entries in menu-bar's Tools menu

[Eli Zaretskii]

On 13 Feb 2002, Kim F. Storm wrote:

> > + (define-key menu-bar-tools-menu [flyspell]
> > +   '(menu-item "Toggle On-the-fly Spelling" flyspell-mode
> > + 	      :help "When ON, highlights misspelled words as you type"))
> 
> Shouldn't that be on the Options menu?

I don't know.  It could be either; I've chosen Tools because Spell is
there.

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Re: Two new entries in menu-bar's Tools menu

[Richard Stallman]

    + (define-key menu-bar-tools-menu [flyspell]
    +   '(menu-item "Toggle On-the-fly Spelling" flyspell-mode
    + 	      :help "When ON, highlights misspelled words as you type"))

This does not belong in the Tools menu.
It would belong in Options, if it is worth including there.

I see that "display speedbar" is also in the Tools menu.
I think it belongs in "Show/Hide", if it merits a menu
bar item (I am not sure of that).

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Re: Two new entries in menu-bar's Tools menu

[Eli Zaretskii]

On Thu, 14 Feb 2002, Richard Stallman wrote:

>     + (define-key menu-bar-tools-menu [flyspell]
>     +   '(menu-item "Toggle On-the-fly Spelling" flyspell-mode
>     + 	      :help "When ON, highlights misspelled words as you type"))
> 
> This does not belong in the Tools menu.
> It would belong in Options, if it is worth including there.

This is not an option in the normal sense we use that in Emacs, IMHO.  
Options is something you routinely turn on to customize Emacs.  Flyspell 
is not like that.  Options (at least those in the menu bar's Options menu) 
are global, and when you "Save options", they get written to .emacs.  
Flyspell is not like that.

> I see that "display speedbar" is also in the Tools menu.
> I think it belongs in "Show/Hide", if it merits a menu
> bar item (I am not sure of that).

To me, Show/Hide is about minor display features.  Speedbar is much more 
than a minor display feature, so I think classifying it as a tool is more 
correct.

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Re: Two new entries in menu-bar's Tools menu

[Per Abrahamsen]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@is.elta.co.il> writes:

> Options (at least those in the menu bar's Options menu) are global,
> and when you "Save options", they get written to .emacs.

Not any more, truncate-lines no longer gets saved.

> Flyspell is not like that.

I think it the "Tools -> Spell Checking" submenu would be the most
intuitive place for it, even if it isn't the most logical 

> To me, Show/Hide is about minor display features.  Speedbar is much more 
> than a minor display feature, so I think classifying it as a tool is more 
> correct.

I don't see any requirement for being "minor".  The "Tools ->
Speedbar" menu entry even behave like a toggle, so I think it would
fit naturaly undet "Options -> Show/Hide".


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Re: Two new entries in menu-bar's Tools menu

[Eli Zaretskii]

On Thu, 14 Feb 2002, Per Abrahamsen wrote:

> > Options (at least those in the menu bar's Options menu) are global,
> > and when you "Save options", they get written to .emacs.
> 
> Not any more, truncate-lines no longer gets saved.

A few exceptions are merely a cionfirmation of the rule ;-)

> I think it the "Tools -> Spell Checking" submenu would be the most
> intuitive place for it, even if it isn't the most logical 

The Spell Checking menu is already too long, so I ruled against that.

> > To me, Show/Hide is about minor display features.  Speedbar is much more 
> > than a minor display feature, so I think classifying it as a tool is more 
> > correct.
> 
> I don't see any requirement for being "minor".

It's not a requirement, it's my personal interpretation.

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Re: Two new entries in menu-bar's Tools menu

[Per Abrahamsen]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@is.elta.co.il> writes:

> On Thu, 14 Feb 2002, Per Abrahamsen wrote:
>
>> I think it the "Tools -> Spell Checking" submenu would be the most
>> intuitive place for it, even if it isn't the most logical 
>
> The Spell Checking menu is already too long, so I ruled against that.

It starts up ridiculously long here, until I actually use it.  Then
most of the Select Dict items disapear, and it is substantially
shorter than the Tools menu.

Maybe we should move the Select Dict to a subsubmenu, for someone who
have selected "install all" in a GNU distribution the Spell Checking
menu will be too long.

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Re: Two new entries in menu-bar's Tools menu

[Eli Zaretskii]

On Thu, 14 Feb 2002, Per Abrahamsen wrote:

> It starts up ridiculously long here, until I actually use it.  Then
> most of the Select Dict items disapear, and it is substantially
> shorter than the Tools menu.

I think once ispell.el is loaded, the actual length of the menu depends 
on what dictionaries do you have installed.

But the length before the use is already a problem, since Flyspell can be 
activated in that situation.

> Maybe we should move the Select Dict to a subsubmenu, for someone who
> have selected "install all" in a GNU distribution the Spell Checking
> menu will be too long.

Probably.

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Re: Two new entries in menu-bar's Tools menu

[Eli Zaretskii]

On Thu, 14 Feb 2002, Per Abrahamsen wrote:

> The "Tools ->
> Speedbar" menu entry even behave like a toggle, so I think it would
> fit naturaly undet "Options -> Show/Hide".

I think we should not move existing menu items around without a very good 
reason.  New items is one thing, but IMHO users shouldn't be forced to 
look for their beloved items with every new release.

The current arrangement is a result of a very prolonged discussion among 
several developers, so we probably won't find many blunders there.

So I suggest that we leave Speedbar alone, at least for a few more 
releases.

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Re: Two new entries in menu-bar's Tools menu

[Miles Bader]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@is.elta.co.il> writes:
> > The "Tools -> Speedbar" menu entry even behave like a toggle, so I
> > think it would fit naturaly undet "Options -> Show/Hide".
> 
> So I suggest that we leave Speedbar alone, at least for a few more 
> releases.

Um, you could put it in both places...

-Miles
-- 
Saa, shall we dance?  (from a dance-class advertisement)

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Re: Two new entries in menu-bar's Tools menu

[Richard Stallman]

    I think it the "Tools -> Spell Checking" submenu would be the most
    intuitive place for it, even if it isn't the most logical 

That is a reasonable place for it--please put it there.

    I think we should not move existing menu items around without a very good 
    reason.

The creation of the Show/Hide menu is a good reason for the move, so
we should move the Speedbar item there now.

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Re: Two new entries in menu-bar's Tools menu

[Per Abrahamsen]

Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

>     I think it the "Tools -> Spell Checking" submenu would be the most
>     intuitive place for it, even if it isn't the most logical 
>
> That is a reasonable place for it--please put it there.

I have added it.

I also added a "Customize..." entry for customizing ispell, and added
the flyspell customize group to the ispell customize group.  I hope
that is OK, otherwise I'll remove it again.

>     I think we should not move existing menu items around without a
>     very good reason.
>
> The creation of the Show/Hide menu is a good reason for the move, so
> we should move the Speedbar item there now.

I have moved it.

It is not saveable yet, though, since speedbar-frame-mode is not not
created with define-minor-mode, or otherwise made a customizable
option.

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Re: Two new entries in menu-bar's Tools menu

[Richard Stallman]

Thanks for making these changes.

    It is not saveable yet, though, since speedbar-frame-mode is not not
    created with define-minor-mode, or otherwise made a customizable
    option.

That would be a good thing to change.

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