From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Reuben Thomas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: Re: [Reuben Thomas] browse-url.el Opera support Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 15:12:04 +0100 (CET) Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: Reply-To: Reuben Thomas NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1074195701 7779 80.91.224.253 (15 Jan 2004 19:41:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 19:41:41 +0000 (UTC) Cc: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, Dave Love Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jan 15 20:41:29 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AhDMu-0004eU-00 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 20:41:28 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AhDBe-0001G4-9R for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 14:29:50 -0500 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.24) id 1AhD87-0000Vg-G1 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 14:26:11 -0500 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.24) id 1Ah8FX-0008Lg-8E for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 09:14:03 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.41.8] (helo=mx20.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim 4.24) id 1Ah8FW-0008Ee-P5 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 09:13:30 -0500 Original-Received: from [217.206.202.87] (helo=cognition.stroop.net) by mx20.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1Ah8EN-0001ps-Sw for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 09:12:19 -0500 Original-Received: from rrt (helo=localhost) by cognition.stroop.net with local-esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1Ah8EA-0003Hv-00; Thu, 15 Jan 2004 14:12:06 +0000 X-X-Sender: rrt@mnemosyne Original-To: Simon Josefsson In-Reply-To: X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list List-Id: Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:6573 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.bugs:6573 On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, Simon Josefsson wrote: > Dave Love writes: > > > [I removed the attachment of XEmacs code.] > > > > From: Reuben Thomas > > Subject: browse-url.el Opera support > > To: fx@gnu.org > > Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:20:26 +0100 (CET) > > Reply-To: Reuben Thomas > > > > I'm an Opera user and recently switched from XEmacs to FSF Emacs. The > > XEmacs version of browse-url.el (in the mail-lib package) has support > > for Opera; I was wondering if it might be possible to fold that into > > the FSF version? > > I recall a discussion about this earlier, when someone proposed a > patch for Opera, and that someone didn't think Emacs should support > non-free browsers like Opera. The XEmacs folks didn't have that > concern, though, so the patch was applied to that version of > browse-url.el. > > If you think this decision should be reconsidered, for Emacs, I think > it has to be discussed on emacs-devel@gnu.org. I don't have the stomach for such a discussion right now. Having to argue to get a patch that is acknowledged to be technically and legally fine into a free software package against philosophical objections seems rather contrary to much of the spirit of free software. I supply bug reports and patches to free software projects all the time. I'm quite happy to have them questioned on technical grounds; similarly, if I find some code that would be useful in a free software project, it's reasonable for the maintainers to enquire as to its provenance, especially in a project like GNU where great pains are taken to ensure that the software will always be legally free, by being owned by the FSF. But this case is neither. It implies that the FSF not only wants me to use free software, but is happy to use its considerable leverage (i.e. much of the software I use is from the FSF) to bully me into doing so: use a free web browser or we won't support you. As it happens, Opera is the one non-free bit of software that I am aware of using regularly. I use it because it works better for me than the alternatives. I wish it weren't so; I find free software more satisfying on philosophical grounds, and in general of higher quality and better supported than non-free software. But a couple of years ago I didn't really see a better choice than Opera, and I switched to it. I'm hoping that Mozilla Firebird, when it goes stable, will replace Opera; I encourage other people to use Mozilla. But I don't see what my (free!) choice of browser has to do with the authors of GNU Emacs. Funnily enough, I wouldn't even be involved in this discussion if it weren't that browse-url.el sucks anyway: I can't remember another program that I've had to throw several kb of script at before it can open URLs in my web browser the way I want: in most programs, I just have to configure a string that looks something like foobrowser -remoteWindow("%u") and it Just Works. This, of course, is an Emacs problem, not a GNU problem, but it adds injury to insult [sic]. Oh well, better write me off as a deluded open-sourcer :-) Sigh, Reuben -- http://www.mupsych.org/~rrt/ Fasting Alleviates Concupiscence Effortlessly