From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vincent_Bela=EFche?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Where to contribute manual translations ? Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2023 19:43:39 +0000 Message-ID: References: <837cky94rm.fsf@gnu.org> <83v88i77ui.fsf@gnu.org> <83jzoy71pb.fsf@gnu.org> <83il4i6yhv.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_PAXP192MB1608EEB1E98026DC6FCBFE21849EAPAXP192MB1608EURP_" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="31924"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: "emacs-devel@gnu.org" To: Eli Zaretskii , Stefan Kangas Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Dec 28 20:45:12 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rIwJc-00084Q-G7 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 28 Dec 2023 20:45:12 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rIwIG-0003Ma-2G; Thu, 28 Dec 2023 14:43:48 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rIwID-0003MQ-OW for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 28 Dec 2023 14:43:45 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-db5eur01olkn2031.outbound.protection.outlook.com ([40.92.64.31] helo=EUR01-DB5-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rIwIB-00086l-KL; Thu, 28 Dec 2023 14:43:45 -0500 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=HjPO3Uw88ZZZo5EGdhVxaUqXTvYOZmREld5Imb0ANOxmPjEsQE2U/AS71REQwY3Ofh56f0n5jVddvXT+vc//mRVvLUEcERJkjqtjsg2dhbxzVFHmHp4kjZxCLY/bhlBW6hu8dmd0YAhliZzCLQFB3S0S7EXmPSJC6qQxhujx+OX5k/RW4Sips8n3BjKhuP3iWps1EPakpX1HkJHmsKoPJXyf2psBX9iLrVrrfDFWe3wDMFVRC2peGMoNRffQGPNreDwI+hEtlpfAAOk70ga80eJRvnj70i46x7LqWjnaG2u4yaACt2rcZoD2dRVYeFrOwwHXfAwhCBeWAntcmLZ1KA== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=QRP9b9kCnxLdIxOgrOdZcnZBWJ3/NZbXf0Qs0IxXRlo=; b=gr65aeBSGG18r3EHz2Q5L2f2fxMcZ+r7OfJLio9b9U1PwNj5Xsin0yjQR2VeyumyqPHNvUM2IAWURzUBzcW6A/6XjVHicqH/Z3Ajgyaq3Py45KfZ+yduK9S2G/zSHXXqJ4dt7mX8DtdEWcgIV/SgGfa6l9xYk2K3cpxMOjgTCJuYgt80umEXh3+qsNmHTMcWivpI5VOu/5eQ/gmRhqzwIQFbf18T2OwC40N+OYCXUjITXKlfSWMFw/GtGvHXTzlINbRpuVQu67HpfaGeHmKQMuB8d86a6n8Pquu8d/BLcNaT5AlT+ZTTqEAbyrIVO9zb2Y7kuOo/9P6vcDFrZzr7Kg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=none; dmarc=none; dkim=none; arc=none Original-Received: from PAXP192MB1608.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:102:28c::22) by DU2P192MB2157.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:10:494::21) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.7135.21; Thu, 28 Dec 2023 19:43:39 +0000 Original-Received: from PAXP192MB1608.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM ([fe80::fee7:9deb:373a:4055]) by PAXP192MB1608.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM ([fe80::fee7:9deb:373a:4055%7]) with mapi id 15.20.7113.027; Thu, 28 Dec 2023 19:43:39 +0000 Thread-Topic: Where to contribute manual translations ? 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:314292 Archived-At: --_000_PAXP192MB1608EEB1E98026DC6FCBFE21849EAPAXP192MB1608EURP_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, Just to react to one of the comment made on this thread. I think too that t= his is a good idea if the compiled documents do not have the same file name= s, like ses-xx.info for xx language translation, and ses.info for the origi= nal language. This is because, at least for the translator it is practical = to have both manual in the same dir, and therefore they need different name= s. Also when you make absolute node reference it is probably better if the = name is different for different language, although I took care to keep the = same node names to make easier language switching. The same applies to the = direntry menu item. Now, concerning the source filename, frankly speaking, I cannot understand = why it would be a problem to have the same names given that they are in dif= ferent directories. I think that having different source file names complex= ifies comparison of source file trees to see at a glance which manuals have= translations, and which don't. Nevertheless I won't make a fuss, and I do = not strongly object to this if I am alone of the opinion that it is a bad i= dea to have different source filenames. Vincent. ________________________________ De : emacs-devel-bounces+vincent.b.1=3Dhotmail.fr@gnu.org de la part de Eli Zaretskii Envoy=E9 : jeudi 28 d=E9cembre 2023 18:14 =C0 : Stefan Kangas Cc : vincent.b.1@hotmail.fr ; emacs-devel@gnu.org <= emacs-devel@gnu.org> Objet : Re: Where to contribute manual translations ? > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2023 09:04:15 -0800 > Cc: vincent.b.1@hotmail.fr, emacs-devel@gnu.org > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > If we are going to call the source files of the translations of > > manuals as MANUAL-LANG.texi, then we don't need a separate directory, > > we could instead put them all in the same directories. That is, we > > could have doc/misc/ses.texi and doc/mist/ses-fr.texi. This would be > > simpler, I think? > > It would be simpler, yes. But it's nice to be able to have a directory > where a simple `ls` gives you "all the manuals that exist" without > having to filter for all languages, or manually check to see if they are > translations. (Unfortunately, filtering out "-[a-z][a-z].texi" doesn't > work due to files like mairix-el.texi.) > > So moving it all into a directory like doc/translations makes things a > little bit more complicated, but arguably also a bit tidier. > > OTOH, we could always change things around later if it starts becoming a > problem. For now, it's all a bit hypothetical given that it's only one > file. :-) > > > Why not info/$MANUAL-$LANG.info ? > > Users of non-French locales do not want to see the French manual(s), I > think. OTOH, if I start Emacs with something like > > LANG=3Dfr_FR emacs -Q > > I would probably like to see the french manual. So what will be in the menu in info/dire we distribute? And if we are going to have separate directories for each language, both under doc/ and under info/, why do we also have to name the files FOO-fr.texi or FOO-fr.info? --_000_PAXP192MB1608EEB1E98026DC6FCBFE21849EAPAXP192MB1608EURP_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello,

Just to react to one of the comment made on this thread. I think too that t= his is a good idea if the compiled documents do not have the same file name= s, like ses-xx.info for xx language translation, and ses.info for the origi= nal language. This is because, at least for the translator it is practical to have both manual in the same d= ir, and therefore they need different names. Also when you make absolute no= de reference it is probably better if the name is different for different l= anguage, although I took care to keep the same node names to make easier language switching. The same appli= es to the direntry menu item.

Now, concerning the source filename, frankly speaking, I cannot understand = why it would be a problem to have the same names given that they are in dif= ferent directories. I think that having different source file names complex= ifies comparison of source file trees to see at a glance which manuals have translations, and which don't.= Nevertheless I won't make a fuss, and I do not strongly object to this if = I am alone of the opinion that it is a bad idea to have different source fi= lenames.

   Vincent.

De : emacs-devel-bounces+vi= ncent.b.1=3Dhotmail.fr@gnu.org <emacs-devel-bounces+vincent.b.1=3Dhotmai= l.fr@gnu.org> de la part de Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
Envoy=E9 : jeudi 28 d=E9cembre 2023 18:14
=C0 : Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@gmail.com>
Cc : vincent.b.1@hotmail.fr <vincent.b.1@hotmail.fr>; ema= cs-devel@gnu.org <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
Objet : Re: Where to contribute manual translations ?
 
> From: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@gmail.co= m>
> Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2023 09:04:15 -0800
> Cc: vincent.b.1@hotmail.fr, emacs-devel@gnu.org
>
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>
> > If we are going to call the source files of the translations of > > manuals as MANUAL-LANG.texi, then we don't need a separate direct= ory,
> > we could instead put them all in the same directories.  That= is, we
> > could have doc/misc/ses.texi and doc/mist/ses-fr.texi.  This= would be
> > simpler, I think?
>
> It would be simpler, yes.  But it's nice to be able to have a dir= ectory
> where a simple `ls` gives you "all the manuals that exist" w= ithout
> having to filter for all languages, or manually check to see if they a= re
> translations.  (Unfortunately, filtering out "-[a-z][a-z].te= xi" doesn't
> work due to files like mairix-el.texi.)
>
> So moving it all into a directory like doc/translations makes things a=
> little bit more complicated, but arguably also a bit tidier.
>
> OTOH, we could always change things around later if it starts becoming= a
> problem.  For now, it's all a bit hypothetical given that it's on= ly one
> file.  :-)
>
> > Why not info/$MANUAL-$LANG.info ?
>
> Users of non-French locales do not want to see the French manual(s), I=
> think.  OTOH, if I start Emacs with something like
>
>     LANG=3Dfr_FR emacs -Q
>
> I would probably like to see the french manual.

So what will be in the menu in info/dire we distribute?

And if we are going to have separate directories for each language,
both under doc/ and under info/, why do we also have to name the files
FOO-fr.texi or FOO-fr.info?

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