From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: xenodasein--- via "Emacs development discussions." Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Have Customize always use `custom-file` Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2022 17:20:35 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: References: Reply-To: xenodasein@tutanota.de Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="5568"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: drew.adams@oracle.com Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Jan 03 17:21:28 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1n4Q5P-0001JG-Rq for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 03 Jan 2022 17:21:27 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46426 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n4Q5N-0007c7-Uk for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 03 Jan 2022 11:21:25 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:48654) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n4Q4h-0006v4-ER for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 03 Jan 2022 11:20:43 -0500 Original-Received: from w4.tutanota.de ([81.3.6.165]:40552) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n4Q4c-0007iW-63 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 03 Jan 2022 11:20:42 -0500 Original-Received: from w3.tutanota.de (unknown [192.168.1.164]) by w4.tutanota.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id A09A31060147; Mon, 3 Jan 2022 16:20:35 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1641226835; s=s1; d=tutanota.de; h=From:From:To:To:Subject:Subject:Content-Description:Content-ID:Content-Type:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Cc:Cc:Date:Date:In-Reply-To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Message-ID:Reply-To:References:References:Sender; bh=rB9QQMk1fAaMuGhgmi6tixkypehgZ7Rx4j4FUOEP/7k=; b=v7p7t6YeknBUSs/MGaBU+TivegfLnezahSrx2Pkk+xxhF7yraDp1P6LXmVw1LNce EOD2y3vtx6/96typySnzKSb//FgTICEDyZD5FZZY4Ezhw6403pjnlcdLgIAuNCqTVOO NJSHizZ+pPxq708fFUwNAfZmqj0TLLmPd8JLvZT+QmDYAVAQTyeWcTY/soXVMgxZzpW B5nUwULC5xOy50BGXpDOk/c3Lf4BOQaXC2I9zDxKGs+YsgY6eVobcQdY1gYBSIKaCPd 9SimIBpdBPXgY8IAVZu01VZKQ7/eLPjrSMbfkhL6BdeW6UH/h7ytw/ZnFs7gGfEGaUL EBCww/QB7w== In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=81.3.6.165; envelope-from=xenodasein@tutanota.de; helo=w4.tutanota.de X-Spam_score_int: -1 X-Spam_score: -0.2 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (-0.2 / 5.0 requ) DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:284068 Archived-At: Jan 3, 2022, 19:04 by drew.adams@oracle.com: >> >>>> Customize should not write to your init file ... That's a bad Emac= s >> >>>> design choice, IMO. It especially should not be the default behavi= or. >> >> Hmm, then where should it write to? >> > IMO, something like >> > (setq custom-file (locate-user-emacs-file "custom-file.el")) >> >> I'd prefer the current behavior TBH, because the real >> issue is not where it is written, it is when it's read. >> > > No. The real issue is who is writing it, and where. > > Users can control the location of `custom-file' > and when it's read. > > And we can provide a default location and time > of reading. > >> Currently it is easy to place custom-set-variables >> where you want either inside init file or to place it into another >> file. >> > > That would of course still be the case. Nothing > prevents you from doing anything in your init or > another file - including calling custom* functions. > >> Timing is important, >> > > It's absolutely important, and needs to remain > under user control. > >> because Customize also has problems with >> autoloads, and who knows what else. >> > > Dunno what problems you envision - please be > specific. > > The only real change is to prevent Customize > from writing to your init file. Nothing else. > I am fine with this behavior, as long as we can place the (load custom-file) anywhere we want. My line of thinking was, if someone is aware of init.el and what Customize writes to it, then it is already very easy for them to do what they like, and stop it from writing.=C2=A0 It is of course better to do the proper thing from beginning. For problems: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/32693757/emacs-package-customization-an= d-autoloads