Suggestion: User-contributed use-cases on orgmode.org ?

Suggestion: User-contributed use-cases on orgmode.org ?

[David Masterson]

Just a suggestion (or maybe this is already handled?).

Was thinking I'd like to see an archive of tagged use-cases for Org that
could be searched via tags or regexp.  The use-cases should include a
description of the problem, a general description of the answer, blocks
of elisp (general code) to setup the answer, and how to use the code to
do the work of the use-case.  In fact, it could be recommended that the
use-cases be written in literate programming style (the first use-case
would have to provide the recommended example).  As such, if written
properly in Org, it could (after a once over by maintainers) be exported
to HTML for inclusion on orgmode.org.

My reason for this is to have a ready reference for how other people
have setup functions/variables that I could then copy/modify for my
particular need.  Many times, hacking other people's code is easier than
digging into the Elisp of the various parts of Org. Forty years of using
Emacs (off fand on) and hacking pieces of Elisp, I never really learned
programming in Elisp.

-- 
David Masterson

Re: Suggestion: User-contributed use-cases on orgmode.org ?

[Russell Adams]

On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 09:09:54PM -0800, David Masterson wrote:
> Just a suggestion (or maybe this is already handled?).
>
> Was thinking I'd like to see an archive of tagged use-cases for Org that
> could be searched via tags or regexp.  The use-cases should include a
> description of the problem, a general description of the answer, blocks
> of elisp (general code) to setup the answer, and how to use the code to
> do the work of the use-case.  In fact, it could be recommended that the
> use-cases be written in literate programming style (the first use-case
> would have to provide the recommended example).  As such, if written
> properly in Org, it could (after a once over by maintainers) be exported
> to HTML for inclusion on orgmode.org.

Have you looked at Worg?

------------------------------------------------------------------
Russell Adams                            RLAdams@AdamsInfoServ.com
                                    https://www.adamsinfoserv.com/

Re: Suggestion: User-contributed use-cases on orgmode.org ?

[Max Nikulin]

On 14/11/2023 15:36, Russell Adams wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 09:09:54PM -0800, David Masterson wrote:
>>
>> Was thinking I'd like to see an archive of tagged use-cases for Org that
>> could be searched via tags or regexp.
[...]
> Have you looked at Worg?

Specifically there is
https://orgmode.org/worg/org-hacks.html
"Org ad hoc code, quick hacks and workarounds"
page. No tags however. To my taste it is overwhelmingly large.

Re: Suggestion: User-contributed use-cases on orgmode.org ?

[David Masterson]

Russell Adams <RLAdams@adamsinfoserv.com> writes:

> On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 09:09:54PM -0800, David Masterson wrote:
>> Just a suggestion (or maybe this is already handled?).
>>
>> Was thinking I'd like to see an archive of tagged use-cases for Org that
>> could be searched via tags or regexp.  The use-cases should include a
>> description of the problem, a general description of the answer, blocks
>> of elisp (general code) to setup the answer, and how to use the code to
>> do the work of the use-case.  In fact, it could be recommended that the
>> use-cases be written in literate programming style (the first use-case
>> would have to provide the recommended example).  As such, if written
>> properly in Org, it could (after a once over by maintainers) be exported
>> to HTML for inclusion on orgmode.org.
>
> Have you looked at Worg?

Yes. and that's a beginning.  I'm just wondering if something could be
made to encourage simple use-cases to be uploaded by anyone to provide a
deeper cookbook.  Perhaps I'm thinking of a wiki where people could add
their own use cases and comment on other people's use cases,  The wiki
would provide structure and search tools for new Org users.

-- 
David Masterson

Re: Suggestion: User-contributed use-cases on orgmode.org ?

[David Masterson]

Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> writes:

> On 14/11/2023 15:36, Russell Adams wrote:
>> On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 09:09:54PM -0800, David Masterson wrote:
>>>
>>> Was thinking I'd like to see an archive of tagged use-cases for Org that
>>> could be searched via tags or regexp.
> [...]
>> Have you looked at Worg?
>
> Specifically there is
> https://orgmode.org/worg/org-hacks.html
> "Org ad hoc code, quick hacks and workarounds"
> page. No tags however. To my taste it is overwhelmingly large.

Perhaps a Wiki would be better?

-- 
David Masterson

Re: Suggestion: User-contributed use-cases on orgmode.org ?

[Corwin Brust]

On Tue, Nov 14, 2023 at 8:16 PM David Masterson <dsmasterson@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > On 14/11/2023 15:36, Russell Adams wrote:
> >> On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 09:09:54PM -0800, David Masterson wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Was thinking I'd like to see an archive of tagged use-cases for Org that
> >>> could be searched via tags or regexp.
> > [...]
> >> Have you looked at Worg?
> >
> > Specifically there is
> > https://orgmode.org/worg/org-hacks.html
> > "Org ad hoc code, quick hacks and workarounds"
> > page. No tags however. To my taste it is overwhelmingly large.
>
> Perhaps a Wiki would be better?
>

WORG is the Wiki for Org, or perhaps I'm not sure what you mean:
better than what?

Patches to WORG don't require assignment, btw.

Please do suggest significant restructuring. I think your organizing
things more in terms of use-cases could be something that will make
WORG more of a "first choice" for people to find and leave suggestions
for getting the most from org.

Alternatively, perhaps the key element of "wiki" for some is "web
accessible editing", in which case I wonder if using EmacsWiki would
make sense.

Re: Suggestion: User-contributed use-cases on orgmode.org ?

[Russell Adams]

On Tue, Nov 14, 2023 at 06:14:43PM -0800, David Masterson wrote:
> Russell Adams <RLAdams@adamsinfoserv.com> writes:
>
> > On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 09:09:54PM -0800, David Masterson wrote:
> >> Just a suggestion (or maybe this is already handled?).
> >>
> >> Was thinking I'd like to see an archive of tagged use-cases for Org that
> >> could be searched via tags or regexp.  The use-cases should include a
> >> description of the problem, a general description of the answer, blocks
> >> of elisp (general code) to setup the answer, and how to use the code to
> >> do the work of the use-case.  In fact, it could be recommended that the
> >> use-cases be written in literate programming style (the first use-case
> >> would have to provide the recommended example).  As such, if written
> >> properly in Org, it could (after a once over by maintainers) be exported
> >> to HTML for inclusion on orgmode.org.
> >
> > Have you looked at Worg?
>
> Yes. and that's a beginning.  I'm just wondering if something could be
> made to encourage simple use-cases to be uploaded by anyone to provide a
> deeper cookbook.  Perhaps I'm thinking of a wiki where people could add
> their own use cases and comment on other people's use cases,  The wiki
> would provide structure and search tools for new Org users.

That's Worg. It's written in Org via Emacs, and publishes to the
web. It does use git, but the codebase is very open. You only have to
ask for an account and start writing.


------------------------------------------------------------------
Russell Adams                            RLAdams@AdamsInfoServ.com
                                    https://www.adamsinfoserv.com/

Re: Suggestion: User-contributed use-cases on orgmode.org ?

[David Masterson]

Corwin Brust <corwin@bru.st> writes:

> On Tue, Nov 14, 2023 at 8:16 PM David Masterson <dsmasterson@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>> > On 14/11/2023 15:36, Russell Adams wrote:
>> >> On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 09:09:54PM -0800, David Masterson wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Was thinking I'd like to see an archive of tagged use-cases for Org that
>> >>> could be searched via tags or regexp.
>> > [...]
>> >> Have you looked at Worg?
>> >
>> > Specifically there is
>> > https://orgmode.org/worg/org-hacks.html
>> > "Org ad hoc code, quick hacks and workarounds"
>> > page. No tags however. To my taste it is overwhelmingly large.
>>
>> Perhaps a Wiki would be better?
>>
>
> WORG is the Wiki for Org, or perhaps I'm not sure what you mean:
> better than what?

Something that could be updated by the public (safely).

> Patches to WORG don't require assignment, btw.

Good point!

> Please do suggest significant restructuring. I think your organizing
> things more in terms of use-cases could be something that will make
> WORG more of a "first choice" for people to find and leave suggestions
> for getting the most from org.

My first reading of WORG (since restructuring) missed a lot. I now see
the idea of using git via sourcehut.  Git may not be as simple as an
open edit wiki, but it probably provides more tools for tracking.

In worg-about, it looks like the repo is ~bzg/worg on src.ht, but "worg"
doesn't come up in the project search on src.ht (but "org" does).  Is
the repo hidden (I don't have an account on src.ht yet -- perhaps
sourcehut should be explained a bit in worg-about).

> Alternatively, perhaps the key element of "wiki" for some is "web
> accessible editing", in which case I wonder if using EmacsWiki would
> make sense.

Duh! Why did I forget about EmacsWiki?!?  Web accessible editing is a
plus to allow organic growth to the wiki -- as long as some rules are
followed. Wikis allow easy undoing of page edits (if necessary) and (I
think) locking pages to be edited only by a few people (creator/admins).
There could be a talk page for suggesting additions to a use-case to
make it more flexible which the use-creator creator could test and
incoporate into the use-case (or just tag it as interesting).

The key thing, though, will be making snippets of elisp code easily
available for people to cut and paste into their own .emacs file.

I haveto look at WORG and EmacsWiki some more.

-- 
David Masterson

Re: Suggestion: User-contributed use-cases on orgmode.org ?

[David Masterson]

Russell Adams <RLAdams@adamsinfoserv.com> writes:

> On Tue, Nov 14, 2023 at 06:14:43PM -0800, David Masterson wrote:
>> Russell Adams <RLAdams@adamsinfoserv.com> writes:
>>
>> > On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 09:09:54PM -0800, David Masterson wrote:
>> >> Just a suggestion (or maybe this is already handled?).
>> >>
>> >> Was thinking I'd like to see an archive of tagged use-cases for Org that
>> >> could be searched via tags or regexp.  The use-cases should include a
>> >> description of the problem, a general description of the answer, blocks
>> >> of elisp (general code) to setup the answer, and how to use the code to
>> >> do the work of the use-case.  In fact, it could be recommended that the
>> >> use-cases be written in literate programming style (the first use-case
>> >> would have to provide the recommended example).  As such, if written
>> >> properly in Org, it could (after a once over by maintainers) be exported
>> >> to HTML for inclusion on orgmode.org.
>> >
>> > Have you looked at Worg?
>>
>> Yes. and that's a beginning.  I'm just wondering if something could be
>> made to encourage simple use-cases to be uploaded by anyone to provide a
>> deeper cookbook.  Perhaps I'm thinking of a wiki where people could add
>> their own use cases and comment on other people's use cases,  The wiki
>> would provide structure and search tools for new Org users.
>
> That's Worg. It's written in Org via Emacs, and publishes to the
> web. It does use git, but the codebase is very open. You only have to
> ask for an account and start writing.

This sounds good.

-- 
David Masterson

Re: Suggestion: User-contributed use-cases on orgmode.org ?

[Ihor Radchenko]

David Masterson <dsmasterson@gmail.com> writes:

> In worg-about, it looks like the repo is ~bzg/worg on src.ht, but "worg"
> doesn't come up in the project search on src.ht (but "org" does).  Is
> the repo hidden (I don't have an account on src.ht yet -- perhaps
> sourcehut should be explained a bit in worg-about).

May you please provide more details?
Do you refer to <https://orgmode.org/worg/worg-about.html>?
FYI, WORG is listed in "Repositories" right at https://sr.ht/~bzg/org/

>> Alternatively, perhaps the key element of "wiki" for some is "web
>> accessible editing", in which case I wonder if using EmacsWiki would
>> make sense.
>
> Duh! Why did I forget about EmacsWiki?!?  Web accessible editing is a
> plus to allow organic growth to the wiki -- as long as some rules are
> followed. Wikis allow easy undoing of page edits (if necessary) and (I
> think) locking pages to be edited only by a few people (creator/admins).
> There could be a talk page for suggesting additions to a use-case to
> make it more flexible which the use-creator creator could test and
> incoporate into the use-case (or just tag it as interesting).

Currently, we prefer all the discussions, including discussions of WORG
pages, to happen on this mailing list. 

One interesting idea could be showing the comment threads right on the
WORG pages, similar to
https://isso-comments.de/
https://staticman.net/
https://meta.discourse.org/t/embed-discourse-comments-on-another-website-via-javascript/31963
https://amnesiak.org/post/2021/01/30/hugo-blog-with-mastodon-comments-extended/

Or we might consider https://git.sr.ht/~bzg/woof to automatically update
WORG pages for appropriately marked mailing list threads.

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>

Re: Suggestion: User-contributed use-cases on orgmode.org ?

[David Masterson]

Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@posteo.net> writes:

> David Masterson <dsmasterson@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> In worg-about, it looks like the repo is ~bzg/worg on src.ht, but "worg"
>> doesn't come up in the project search on src.ht (but "org" does).  Is
>> the repo hidden (I don't have an account on src.ht yet -- perhaps
>> sourcehut should be explained a bit in worg-about).
>
> May you please provide more details?

I'll try. 

> Do you refer to <https://orgmode.org/worg/worg-about.html>?

Yes.

> FYI, WORG is listed in "Repositories" right at https://sr.ht/~bzg/org/

I see no mention of "~bzg/org" in worg-about.  I think my lack of
experience for many years is showing -- I didn't think to click on the
~bzg/worg link which would've told me about ~bzg/org.  I assumed the
link was just telling me what to put on 'git clone'.  Perhaps that
should be explained a little more in worg-about.

What I did was go to sr.ht to see what it looked like and maybe sign up
for an account.  I followed the "More Projects" link and searched for
"~bzg/worg", but nothing came up.  However, searching for "org" did
bring up "~bzg/org".  Being out of practice, I was confused.

>>> Alternatively, perhaps the key element of "wiki" for some is "web
>>> accessible editing", in which case I wonder if using EmacsWiki would
>>> make sense.
>>
>> Duh! Why did I forget about EmacsWiki?!?  Web accessible editing is a
>> plus to allow organic growth to the wiki -- as long as some rules are
>> followed. Wikis allow easy undoing of page edits (if necessary) and (I
>> think) locking pages to be edited only by a few people (creator/admins).
>> There could be a talk page for suggesting additions to a use-case to
>> make it more flexible which the use-creator creator could test and
>> incoporate into the use-case (or just tag it as interesting).
>
> Currently, we prefer all the discussions, including discussions of WORG
> pages, to happen on this mailing list.

And I'm beginning to warm to WORG's approach.  I used FosWiki a long
time ago which is different.

> One interesting idea could be showing the comment threads right on the
> WORG pages, similar to
> https://isso-comments.de/
> https://staticman.net/
> https://meta.discourse.org/t/embed-discourse-comments-on-another-website-via-javascript/31963
> https://amnesiak.org/post/2021/01/30/hugo-blog-with-mastodon-comments-extended/

These each look interesting.

> Or we might consider https://git.sr.ht/~bzg/woof to automatically update
> WORG pages for appropriately marked mailing list threads.

Hmm. That sounds most interesting becuase it command line driven.
Perhaps a new mailing list should be created for this?

-- 
David Masterson

Re: Suggestion: User-contributed use-cases on orgmode.org ?

[Ihor Radchenko]

David Masterson <dsmasterson@gmail.com> writes:

>> FYI, WORG is listed in "Repositories" right at https://sr.ht/~bzg/org/
>
> I see no mention of "~bzg/org" in worg-about.
> ... I think my lack of
> experience for many years is showing -- I didn't think to click on the
> ~bzg/worg link which would've told me about ~bzg/org.  I assumed the
> link was just telling me what to put on 'git clone'.  Perhaps that
> should be explained a little more in worg-about.

I guess that you are confused about
    
    It is made of numerous .org files that you can clone from https://git.sr.ht/~bzg/worg.

Would it help if we change it to

    It is made of numerous .org files from https://git.sr.ht/~bzg/worg.

?
  
>> Or we might consider https://git.sr.ht/~bzg/woof to automatically update
>> WORG pages for appropriately marked mailing list threads.
>
> Hmm. That sounds most interesting becuase it command line driven.
> Perhaps a new mailing list should be created for this?

I don't think so. We intentionally keep Org mailing list as a single
place for all the discussions, not just Org development.
AFAIU, Bastien is firmly into this policy (CCing him in case if I
misunderstood).

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>

Re: Suggestion: User-contributed use-cases on orgmode.org ?

[David Masterson]

Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@posteo.net> writes:

> David Masterson <dsmasterson@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> I see no mention of "~bzg/org" in worg-about.
>
> Would it help if we change it to
>
>     It is made of numerous .org files from https://git.sr.ht/~bzg/worg.
>
> ?

Perhaps:

Follow the link https://git.sr.ht/~bzg/worg for information (including
cloning) on the WORG Git repository at SourceHut (https://sourcehut.org).

>>> Or we might consider https://git.sr.ht/~bzg/woof to automatically update
>>> WORG pages for appropriately marked mailing list threads.
>>
>> Hmm. That sounds most interesting becuase it's command line driven.
>> Perhaps a new mailing list should be created for this?
>
> I don't think so. We intentionally keep Org mailing list as a single
> place for all the discussions, not just Org development.  AFAIU,
> Bastien is firmly into this policy (CCing him in case if I
> misunderstood).

Ok.  There might be enough capability in WOOF to sort thru the mailing
list properly.

-- 
David Masterson

Re: Suggestion: User-contributed use-cases on orgmode.org ?

[Ihor Radchenko]

David Masterson <dsmasterson@gmail.com> writes:

>> Would it help if we change it to
>>
>>     It is made of numerous .org files from https://git.sr.ht/~bzg/worg.
>>
>> ?
>
> Perhaps:
>
> Follow the link https://git.sr.ht/~bzg/worg for information (including
> cloning) on the WORG Git repository at SourceHut (https://sourcehut.org).

I am not sure if I like it.

Consider the more complete context of this sentence as in
https://orgmode.org/worg/worg-about.html:

    * What is Worg? What is its relation to Org?
    
    Worg is a collaborative knowledge database about Org.
    
    It is made of numerous .org files that you can clone from https://git.sr.ht/~bzg/worg.

    ...
    * OK, I want to contribute to Worg now!

Your suggestion is going beyond the scope of "What is Worg?..." and goes
more into "I want to contribute to Worg", which is already quite
detailed.

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>

Re: Suggestion: User-contributed use-cases on orgmode.org ?

[David Masterson]

Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@posteo.net> writes:

> David Masterson <dsmasterson@gmail.com> writes:
>
>>> Would it help if we change it to
>>>
>>>     It is made of numerous .org files from https://git.sr.ht/~bzg/worg.
>>>
>>> ?
>>
>> Perhaps:
>>
>> Follow the link https://git.sr.ht/~bzg/worg for information (including
>> cloning) on the WORG Git repository at SourceHut (https://sourcehut.org).
>
> I am not sure if I like it.

Ok.  The more I look at it, the more I'm okay with it. I confused the
link to ~bzg/worg with an argument you would give to 'git clone', but
that's just me jumping to conclusions.

-- 
David Masterson

Re: Suggestion: User-contributed use-cases on orgmode.org ?

[Bastien Guerry]

Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@posteo.net> writes:

> I don't think so. We intentionally keep Org mailing list as a single
> place for all the discussions, not just Org development.
> AFAIU, Bastien is firmly into this policy (CCing him in case if I
> misunderstood).

You didn't misunderstood: I firmly believe that we should use the Org
mailing list as the reference channel for Org discussions.

-- 
 Bastien Guerry