From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: goncholden Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Spaces rather than tabs by a major mode hook Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2022 20:02:57 +0000 Message-ID: References: <83r13vy4nf.fsf@gnu.org> <83leu3y0hs.fsf@gnu.org> <83h74rxze0.fsf@gnu.org> <83bkuzxvur.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: goncholden Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="20985"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Jun 11 22:03:34 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1o07KX-0005CV-TQ for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 11 Jun 2022 22:03:33 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43612 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o07KW-0006Wn-Cl for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 11 Jun 2022 16:03:32 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:33440) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o07K8-0006WQ-2H for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 11 Jun 2022 16:03:08 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-40140.protonmail.ch ([185.70.40.140]:61964) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o07K5-0005Ai-UF for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 11 Jun 2022 16:03:07 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail3; t=1654977783; x=1655236983; bh=7MI7z4U6NliPSqrKqk5yZwqo7UB8sYhJ2c0wObdRVQk=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Reply-To:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To: References:Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To: Feedback-ID:Message-ID; b=UI/hqGGQbA11IkMYhdjxHjdtkw+PRTAGF7cO+OmRm3hLowInhuKNUCVn0sz2c3GqS VAhlzy9gukWDLlPVH7Y5zFaLmOhoSul9tsnNSWqRTq+znnUver9BS53dgNXDyC2ey2 y0M9nYhvvfGg5bxW6ms5GIEOJhbE0BT/hBysnTIB4uar4ZGRqgkANwbOSscIEScZxg zUQvIIvAxU7beETE41QjPBPpPKRre8QAVns9PrssGOnepzMyjTpsUJL74OQH6qDp2P 4K7w2Y4eza3Z8ArkChWAWchevWzv233lH6Q3eEFHdaMgpeY80C1iP7tKao2H0d+Z0n 1DBLgWpRMeAxQ== In-Reply-To: <83bkuzxvur.fsf@gnu.org> Feedback-ID: 43053548:user:proton Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.70.40.140; envelope-from=goncholden@protonmail.com; helo=mail-40140.protonmail.ch X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:137698 Archived-At: ------- Original Message ------- On Saturday, June 11th, 2022 at 11:50 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrot= e: > > Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2022 11:15:59 +0000 > > From: goncholden goncholden@protonmail.com > > Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org > > > > > Emacs doesn't impose any style. By "style" I meant how many columns > > > should each construct be indented. In Emacs, you can set all the > > > parameters of the style one by one via the menu I mentioned, and you > > > can do that according to the style used by whoever wrote these files. > > > Then you save your customizations, and Emacs will henceforth > > > automatically indent according to the style you defined by your > > > customizations. > > > > Let me rephrase again. Emacs imposes indentation rules by requiring sai= d customisations. > > > Emacs requires you to customize, once, the indentation so that it > could thereafter help you by indenting everything automatically to > suit the indentation style. That's a win by any measure. That the problem you are taking ages to understand. "Emacs requires you to= customize", the origin of the problem. > > The question about how many columns should each construct be indented, = has no answer. > > > It should be possible to answer that question by just examining the > file you posted. No, because there are thousands of files. That was just an example to show= how emacs takes over the file, disallowing tabs and certain formatting bec= ause it assumes that fortran files have a single style. Not true. > Alternatively, you could just reindent the entire file according to > the defaults, like this: > > C-x h > C-M-\ > > and then keep making changes without any customizations. That would destroy the possibilities of easily detecting code changes. Onl= y want emacs to recognise that one cannot impose a style on legacy code. I= t should be able to go along with no style. The mantra that things can always be customised implies observance to a sin= gle formatting scheme. Legacy code does not even subscribe to that. They = only had simple editors. If I introduce tabs with "C-q TAB", all those tabs get removed by emacs as soon as one presses retur= n at the end of the line. Emacs is acting like a dictator.