From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Adrian Robert Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: ns-win.el Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 13:49:36 +0300 Message-ID: References: <19651.37838.815906.240014@fencepost.gnu.org> <7seibdzmke.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <6B12217D-6FF2-42FE-A53C-AAA32C7AC510@gmail.com> <6geibdtpty.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1081) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1288091086 5334 80.91.229.12 (26 Oct 2010 11:04:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 11:04:46 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Dan Nicolaescu , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Glenn Morris Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Oct 26 13:04:43 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PAhKd-0003Z2-1f for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 26 Oct 2010 13:04:43 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47258 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PAhKc-0001P0-9z for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 26 Oct 2010 07:04:42 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=44287 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PAh7A-00052E-G8 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 26 Oct 2010 06:50:53 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PAh69-00025Z-Cj for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 26 Oct 2010 06:49:46 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ew0-f41.google.com ([209.85.215.41]:52472) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PAh65-00024g-RL; Tue, 26 Oct 2010 06:49:41 -0400 Original-Received: by ewy25 with SMTP id 25so2263279ewy.0 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2010 03:49:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:subject:mime-version :content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc:content-transfer-encoding :message-id:references:to:x-mailer; bh=JXC+f4rXeTFVNusYettfh1xH7FQldBtWHX2FLNRIPpU=; b=fh1zpeQVqGk5ezSKrV/8CPr3OkTVslE+He9+YIbzei6PAOHZeicwxnMgB80m1wiK3d EZ7Fh3V2QsGO/sx+ncV8bNUAfvyrZ9T7qahqyuqYXTd+sxWTSf9me/UAH2DcvNjJFgpN 18VfeIcedV3BXVMk7r76BgkGr8nvZmhCav/1A= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer; b=MdremOBogukUifbI4FYMIXBDvuiw6MseBheAtjYUsSmqGDx+TJK9PK0SmGva61xwX+ gEd6bqY318wGFQqQsqVCG0S+ScUQ+wUGUf/aPeBdkCKUuMMQP9SsUgy0pqB55cqY9dmz KJ5Dw8r8Xj2GJJQMcfoi23krq+cQxylmAGQXg= Original-Received: by 10.213.108.77 with SMTP id e13mr1401792ebp.19.1288090180591; Tue, 26 Oct 2010 03:49:40 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [10.0.1.2] (dsl-hkibrasgw2-fe25de00-221.dhcp.inet.fi [80.222.37.221]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id v51sm4082608eeh.16.2010.10.26.03.49.38 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 26 Oct 2010 03:49:39 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <6geibdtpty.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1081) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:132128 Archived-At: On 2010/10/26, at 9:45, Glenn Morris wrote: > Adrian Robert wrote: >=20 >> The 'nxopen' functions you removed fro ns-win are referenced from >> startup.el. >=20 > I didn't remove any nxopen functions? My mistake -- I confused lines when reading the changelog. >> On the other hand, they were moved from menu-bar.el TO ns-win.el >> during the merge. It was desired to keep these platform-specific >> things in the platform-specific file rather than cluttering up >> common files, and I've come to agree myself this is the best way. >=20 > Whoops. I have to say I disagree, since it is more work to change the > menus after they are defined, and it means requiring easymenu in the > dumped ns Emacs; and this means putting it in the DOC file for every > platform. I also find it much easier to see all the menu definitions = at > one place rather than have them scattered over multiple files. I don't feel strongly, but having it in ns-win.el makes it clearer what = is done differently for that platform and keeps the clutter out for = people reading the common code. The code isn't that much "work" and = it's limited to when the NS windowing system is actually used. Does it = really need to be in DOC file for all builds, or just builds that = include NS? >> They are minor, but make a significant difference in making the >> menus seem less alien on the platform. On the other hand anything >> less minor would deviate too much from the common emacs UI and >> confuse users coming from other platforms. They are a compromise, >> but a reasonable one. >=20 > BTW I kind of thought the point of Emacs was to look the same on all > platforms; but I only use it on GNU/Linux. I'd say the "point" of emacs is to provide second-to-none editing = functionality, and a secondary point is to deliver it on as many = platforms as possible with least overall friction for users. If the = port was remapping M-x or something like that, I'd see a problem. This = is much more "trivial" which interferes in no way with functionality but = nonetheless helps the app feel more accessible and "at home" on the = platform. > See http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D4517 It "bugged" this reporter, but how to compare to the hundreds / = thousands who remained silent, or perhaps benefited from being able to = find the menu entry easily?