From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Customize buttons that change user's custom file should askforconfirmation Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 09:22:55 -0800 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1107192588 12104 80.91.229.6 (31 Jan 2005 17:29:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 17:29:48 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Jan 31 18:29:23 2005 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CvfMX-0007Zm-00 for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 18:29:22 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1CvfZH-0003cD-0I for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 12:42:31 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1CvfXC-0002vZ-MA for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 12:40:24 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1CvfX0-0002pM-Je for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 12:40:14 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1CvfWz-0002mD-Qx for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 12:40:09 -0500 Original-Received: from [141.146.126.231] (helo=agminet04.oracle.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim 4.34) id 1CvfGZ-0003ni-9a for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 12:23:11 -0500 Original-Received: from agminet04.oracle.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by agminet04.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id j0VHMwee024973; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 09:22:58 -0800 Original-Received: from rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com [138.1.191.50]) by agminet04.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id j0VHMvRK024895; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 09:22:57 -0800 Original-Received: from rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id j0VHMu5X015669; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 10:22:56 -0700 Original-Received: from dradamslap (dradams-lap.us.oracle.com [130.35.177.126]) by rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with SMTP id j0VHMtuX015664 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO); Mon, 31 Jan 2005 10:22:56 -0700 Original-To: "Per Abrahamsen" , X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-reply-to: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:32676 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:32676 >> Instead of "Erase Customizations": >> 1) "Default Values" - resets to default (= installed) settings > > I would prefer "Reset to Defaults". Emacs terminology is a bit messed up here, in that default-value refer to the value that in not buffer local. Customize is "standard" instead of "default" in the code for that reason. Of course, that need not be reflected in the UI. Good point. If we did not have this dilemma, then "Default Values" would be good to use in the customize UI (it is commonly used to mean this in user-preference dialogs). But we do, so we should avoid confusing users with two kinds of "default" value. It would be good to have two different terms for the two different kinds of default value, so that we don't have to describe the context each time. One is the standard value for a user option (variable or face), where "standard" essentially means defined by defcustom or defface (IIUC). The other is the value a variable has in a buffer if there is no buffer-local value (setq-default). Our choices are to rename the customize term or the global-value term. - If we rename the customize term, then I think "Standard Values" might be good, as used in the customize code. Another possibility to consider for this might be "Installed Values" (or "Stock Values"). This standard value is apparently redefined each time defcustom is executed for a variable, which perhaps argues against using "installed" as the term (although multiple defcustoms for the same variable shouldn't exist or should be rare). - If we instead rename the global-value term, and use "default" value to mean the standard value of customize, then we will need to change existing references to default values in the sense of non-local values (setq-default), to call them "global" values (or something similar). But then `setq-default' would become a misnomer. Also, in this case, only user options would have default values; variables that are not `user-variable-p' would not. "Standard Values" seems best to me, so far.