From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Getting more info on a variable in Customize buffers Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 10:12:48 -0800 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1104863429 7149 80.91.229.6 (4 Jan 2005 18:30:29 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 18:30:29 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jan 04 19:30:17 2005 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CltEy-0001E7-00 for ; Tue, 04 Jan 2005 19:17:08 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CltQB-0001xL-Rq for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 04 Jan 2005 13:28:43 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1CltPe-0001jM-Ve for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 04 Jan 2005 13:28:11 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1CltPd-0001iC-0L for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 04 Jan 2005 13:28:09 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CltPc-0001i8-Rb for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 04 Jan 2005 13:28:08 -0500 Original-Received: from [148.87.2.201] (helo=inet-mail1.oracle.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim 4.34) id 1CltAz-0002rK-Ky for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 04 Jan 2005 13:13:01 -0500 Original-Received: from inet-mail1.oracle.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by inet-mail1.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id j04ICsqI026275; Tue, 4 Jan 2005 10:12:54 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com [138.1.191.50]) by inet-mail1.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id j04ICpeW026241; Tue, 4 Jan 2005 10:12:52 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id j04ICoUN015877; Tue, 4 Jan 2005 11:12:50 -0700 Original-Received: from dradamslap (dhcp-amer-csvpn-gw2-141-144-82-222.vpn.oracle.com [141.144.82.222]) by rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with SMTP id j04ICkNv015796 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 4 Jan 2005 11:12:49 -0700 Original-To: "Per Abrahamsen" , X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-reply-to: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:31834 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:31834 > I suggested that each variable name itself serve as a toggle > - click it to > change display of the name locally (but not change the variable > `custom-unlispify-tag-names'). A tooltip would be better. How would a tooltip help? The idea is to toggle the display. Are you suggesting a tooltip with instructions of how to customize `custom-unlispify-tag-names'? But I think the UI is already overloaded. Given the target audience of customize, the UI should be kept much more minimal than it is. It is certainly very *&!BUSY+@~, but that is mainly a problem of: 1) poor choice of visuals: large, bold type for simple names, 3D buttons for everything, whether it is really a link, a menu, or an action button. 2) some poorly chosen names and poorly positioned buttons and info. Other UIs have even more overloading, in fact, in the sense of there being some things you can click by discovery that provide extra info or minor display changes - without the UI appearing overwhelming (busy, loud, confusing, disorienting). There is nothing wrong with having a relatively unimportant UI element be active in some minor way (e.g. tooltip, display toggle). But important UI elements should have their active functionalities be obvious (e.g. links, menus, buttons should be easy to recognize). Setting custom-unlispify-tag-names to nil by default might be better, I don't remember why we ended up with the current value. That would be a good start.