From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Getting more info on a variable in Customize buffers Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2005 15:52:57 -0800 Message-ID: References: <200501022044.j02KiBL08651@raven.dms.auburn.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1104710075 13198 80.91.229.6 (2 Jan 2005 23:54:35 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2005 23:54:35 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Jan 03 00:54:29 2005 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1ClFYK-00084N-00 for ; Mon, 03 Jan 2005 00:54:28 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1ClFjS-0008DH-0b for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 02 Jan 2005 19:05:58 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1ClFik-00081g-2F for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 02 Jan 2005 19:05:14 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1ClFig-00080p-Ql for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 02 Jan 2005 19:05:11 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1ClFig-00080S-CB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 02 Jan 2005 19:05:10 -0500 Original-Received: from [141.146.126.231] (helo=agminet04.oracle.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim 4.34) id 1ClFXN-0002fj-Ta for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 02 Jan 2005 18:53:30 -0500 Original-Received: from agminet04.oracle.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by agminet04.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id j02NrN8D002071; Sun, 2 Jan 2005 15:53:23 -0800 Original-Received: from rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com [138.1.191.50]) by agminet04.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id j02NrLL1002060; Sun, 2 Jan 2005 15:53:22 -0800 Original-Received: from rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id j02NrKRP012107; Sun, 2 Jan 2005 16:53:20 -0700 Original-Received: from dradamslap (dhcp-amer-csvpn-gw1-141-144-64-253.vpn.oracle.com [141.144.64.253]) by rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with SMTP id j02NrFtM012079 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO); Sun, 2 Jan 2005 16:53:20 -0700 Original-To: "Luc Teirlinck" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <200501022044.j02KiBL08651@raven.dms.auburn.edu> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:31705 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:31705 However, that seems to show the _initial expression_ (written in the code), which is not the same as the current value of the variable. I still don't see any way to obtain the current value as a sexp, without using `C-h v'. I did not look at the source code, but from experimentation, it appears that the _saved_ value is shown. (Or the default value if there is no saved value.) A value set for the current session only is ignored. I do not know the motivation for this behavior. I never noticed, because I seldom use Custom to set something for the current session only. So, it sounds like perhaps we should reconsider what the aim of this so-called "initial Lisp expression" is. What is the need that its display is meant to satisfy? Is it supposed to show the defining _expression_ that yields the initial value (what its name suggests)? Is it supposed to show the (sexp-form of) the last saved value, as you say it does? Is it supposed to show the currently set (but perhaps not saved) value as a sexp? To me, the last of these is the most useful - it is what `C-h v' shows. I can get the initial defining expression from the source code. And I'm not very interested in knowing the last saved value (I can get it from .emacs or custom-file, if I need it). Once we decide what this is for, or what it should be for, we can pick a good menu-item name for it. Other opinions? Or are we misunderstanding what this is about? - Drew