From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Customize buttons that change user's customfileshouldaskforconfirmation Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 11:51:25 -0800 Message-ID: References: <023701c51392$a0eeba80$0200a8c0@sedrcw11488> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1108498674 27843 80.91.229.2 (15 Feb 2005 20:17:54 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:17:54 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Feb 15 21:17:54 2005 Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1D198Q-0006CG-31 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 21:17:26 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1D19OD-00049S-Tl for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 15:33:45 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1D19NR-0003vJ-7G for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 15:32:57 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1D19NP-0003ux-Q3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 15:32:56 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1D19IW-00028P-D1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 15:27:52 -0500 Original-Received: from [141.146.126.231] (helo=agminet04.oracle.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim 4.34) id 1D18jN-0005eQ-2w; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 14:51:33 -0500 Original-Received: from agminet04.oracle.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by agminet04.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id j1FJpT5Q018716; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 11:51:29 -0800 Original-Received: from rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com [138.1.191.50]) by agminet04.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id j1FJpSDg018704; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 11:51:28 -0800 Original-Received: from rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id j1FJpRKn001872; Tue, 15 Feb 2005 12:51:27 -0700 Original-Received: from dradamslap (dhcp-amer-csvpn-gw1-141-144-64-165.vpn.oracle.com [141.144.64.165]) by rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with SMTP id j1FJpP46001843 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 15 Feb 2005 12:51:26 -0700 Original-To: "Lennart Borgman" , , X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <023701c51392$a0eeba80$0200a8c0@sedrcw11488> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org X-MailScanner-To: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:33503 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:33503 > - A context-sensitive menu (e.g. mouse-3) I any proposal of this kind I think it is important to give the possibility to use only the keyboard. Some people do not want to use the mouse and some simply can not use it. That's standard practice: there should be keyboard access to the same functionality provided by the mouse - in particular, popup menus. I don't know if that's the case generally with Emacs (I think not), but it is standard in many apps these days. Some such mechanism is, I think, in fact required for accessibility standards that apply to disabled people - e.g. W3C WCAG (Web Content Accessibility Guidelines) Double-A recommendations. Why not let the menu-bar menu have entries for working with the "current option". The "current option" could be that where the point is. (I implemented this kind of functionality in my proposal long ago for a redressed Custom GUI.) That's possible, but I don't think it's desirable. That is not standard in any UI I'm familiar with. A context-sensitive menu is usually associated with a mouse button, because you are generally using the mouse to manipulate things associated with that context. This is the practice nearly everywhere in MS Windows, for instance. For example, you are doing things in a dialog box, and you use mouse-3 to open a menu for manipulating something in the dialog box that is under the mouse pointer. Users are very used to this behavior. It is true that Emacs has a notion of point (cursor) that is separate from the pointer location, so that such an operation as you describe can be unambiguous without the mouse. Dired, for instance, has a menu-bar menu (Immediate) that is largely for manipulating an individual file at point. I nevertheless think that in most contexts (e.g. Customize) the position of point is not a very useful (because not very obvious) indicator of the current focus of action. Also, if the context is to sometimes be a _set_ of options, then point is not a sufficient context indicator. It is better to make the focus of action obvious - e.g. using visible marks. Another possibility in this regard is, as Richard suggested, to list the options to which an action will apply (a la Dired asking if you want to delete these files).