From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: pop-up tool-bar Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 13:20:20 -0700 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1097180964 25452 80.91.229.6 (7 Oct 2004 20:29:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 20:29:24 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Miguel Frasson , Emacs-Devel Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Oct 07 22:29:07 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CFess-0006gH-00 for ; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 22:29:06 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CFezd-0002qk-7S for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 16:36:05 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1CFezV-0002qd-3p for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 16:35:57 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1CFezT-0002qD-FW for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 16:35:55 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CFezT-0002qA-Db for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 16:35:55 -0400 Original-Received: from [148.87.2.201] (helo=inet-mail1.oracle.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim 4.34) id 1CFers-0002PQ-B3; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 16:28:04 -0400 Original-Received: from rgmgw3.us.oracle.com (rgmgw3.us.oracle.com [138.1.191.12]) by inet-mail1.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id i97KMmgC009599; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 13:22:48 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from rgmgw3.us.oracle.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rgmgw3.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id i97KKOT2012370; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 14:20:24 -0600 Original-Received: from dradamslap (dradams-lap.us.oracle.com [130.35.177.126]) by rgmgw3.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with SMTP id i97KKLR3012298; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 14:20:21 -0600 Original-To: "David Kastrup" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:28057 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:28057 "Buttons" works. I hear your point about feedback, and agree with the principle. I'm not sure that a single space in "Tool Bar" would be a problem, but I agree that it is more ambiguous (confusing) than having no space. I'd also say that, in general, we should try to (and should be able to) come up with a single word for any menu. I'm curious as to whether there are standard conventions about this (how to represent multiple-word menu names). In particular (obviously), whether there is a GNU Emacs convention about this. BTW, no one has replied concerning whether or not it would be good to add such an on-demand tool-bar option to Emacs (after we get it right). Thanks, - Drew -----Original Message----- From: David Kastrup [mailto:dak@gnu.org] Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 1:09 PM To: Drew Adams Cc: Miguel Frasson; Emacs-Devel Subject: Re: pop-up tool-bar "Drew Adams" writes: > Hi Miguel, > > I see the pb. Good catch. > > First, the name "Tool Bar" in the menu-bar. I don't know; I used to feel > like you do. Now I figure that since mouseover now highlights the > button/menu, there is no problem. Disagree. Additional hints are nice, but relying on them is a bad idea. For example, on a congested machine, visual feedback might be seriously delayed. The X protocol is optimized not to necessitate round trip operations, and a forced roundtrip for user interaction is not a universally good idea. In addition, it might confuse screen readers and similar stuff for visually impaired people (which might not be able to properly discern highlighting, anyway). Apart of which, my GTK toolkit does not provide mouse-over highlighting before I actually click on a menu item in the meny bar. > Plus, the spacing between menus is generally more than a single > space, so it's not too difficult to parse, visually. And ToolBar or > Toolbar looks ugly to me. I suppose that if there's a standard > convention regarding this I should change the name - is there?. While I would not want to condone StUdLyCaPs, "Toolbar" looks ok to me. Since the menu entry does not cause a permanent Toolbar, "Buttons" would also be ok. -- David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum