From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Eliminating "changed in Emacs outside of Customize" Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 13:05:09 -0800 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1107292912 22890 80.91.229.2 (1 Feb 2005 21:21:52 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 21:21:52 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Per Abrahamsen , rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Feb 01 22:21:51 2005 Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Cw5Su-0003Iq-Pf for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2005 22:21:41 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Cw5ft-00082N-QD for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2005 16:35:05 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Cw5Z3-0005xI-Qw for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2005 16:28:02 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Cw5Yt-0005rr-Bz for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2005 16:27:51 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Cw5Yp-0005ns-KW for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2005 16:27:47 -0500 Original-Received: from [141.146.126.231] (helo=agminet04.oracle.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim 4.34) id 1Cw5D3-00007o-NW; Tue, 01 Feb 2005 16:05:18 -0500 Original-Received: from agminet04.oracle.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by agminet04.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id j11L5Fkm030972; Tue, 1 Feb 2005 13:05:15 -0800 Original-Received: from rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com [138.1.191.50]) by agminet04.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id j11L5Esh030930; Tue, 1 Feb 2005 13:05:14 -0800 Original-Received: from rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id j11L5Dgd009192; Tue, 1 Feb 2005 14:05:13 -0700 Original-Received: from dradamslap (dhcp-amer-whq-csvpn-gw3-141-144-81-59.vpn.oracle.com [141.144.81.59]) by rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with SMTP id j11L5Bu7009178 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 1 Feb 2005 14:05:12 -0700 Original-To: "David Kastrup" , "Stefan Monnier" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org X-MailScanner-To: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:32724 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:32724 > Of course the above problem will only happen if the (setq-default > fill-column 42) happens to be executed after Helen's > custom-set-variables (e.g. in a mode-hook or in one of the many > poorly written major modes that happily mess up global variables). Wrong. Customize does not touch variables that have been set outside of it. Whether the set-default is executed before or after customize initializes its variables does not matter. The only difference is that if it is customized before, custom-set-variables will call the :set function (after the fact), something which does not happen otherwise. Huh? What's the deal - do I have a different Emacs from everyone else? I'm using vanilla Emacs from CVS of last July, so I probably do, but I wouldn't expect this to be different. Did you actually prove the pudding by ta/esting it? I see exactly the behavior described by Per, Stefan, and myself - and I see no pb with it (unlike Stefan and Per). Following Stefan's directions, an initially empty .emacs ends up being this: (setq-default fill-column 42) (custom-set-variables '(fill-column 75)) (custom-set-faces) Upon restarting, fill-column is 75 and flagged "set and saved" in Customize. If, as Stefan suggested, I place the (setq-default fill-column 42) after the custom-set* stuff: (custom-set-variables '(fill-column 75)) (custom-set-faces) (setq-default fill-column 42) Then, upon restarting, fill-column is 42 and flagged "changed outside Customize". So, I don't see why you say "Wrong...before or after...does not matter." And, if we erased the distinction between "set" and "changed outside", the only difference (that I can see) would be that, in this last scenario, fill-column is 42 and flagged "set". - Drew