From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: not too happy with Emacs 21 vertical-line dragging when scrollbars present Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 14:33:01 -0700 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1097184825 32505 80.91.229.6 (7 Oct 2004 21:33:45 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 21:33:45 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Oct 07 23:33:33 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CFftF-0003hw-00 for ; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 23:33:33 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CFg00-0001at-1S for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 17:40:32 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1CFfzr-0001aW-Kc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 17:40:23 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1CFfzr-0001aD-1L for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 17:40:23 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CFfzq-0001a2-RJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 17:40:22 -0400 Original-Received: from [141.146.126.228] (helo=agminet01.oracle.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim 4.34) id 1CFft1-0003Fu-8j; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 17:33:19 -0400 Original-Received: from rgmgw1.us.oracle.com (rgmgw1.us.oracle.com [138.1.191.10]) by agminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id i97LX3RM002773; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 14:33:03 -0700 Original-Received: from rgmgw1.us.oracle.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rgmgw1.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id i97LX3Se028931; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 15:33:03 -0600 Original-Received: from dradamslap (dradams-lap.us.oracle.com [130.35.177.126]) by rgmgw1.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with SMTP id i97LX3ee028921; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 15:33:03 -0600 Original-To: "Kim F. Storm" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:28062 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:28062 OK, now it's clear. By mouse-around, I meant mouse-over. I didn't mouse-over to find the square drag handle in Emacs 20. I saw it, and mouse-over doesn't change the pointer in Emacs 20, so that wouldn't help anyway. But your point is that I still had to go looking for it; and you're right. But there was something _visible_ there to try. I didn't have to blindly _mouse-over_ every part of the frame to find the hidden "G" spot (for "grab" ;-) ) that did the trick. I would prefer the "thin line on the side of the scrollbar" (all the way up). That is common in many applications. Hopefully, it wouldn't be _too_ difficult to grab, and it would have the big advantage of being where you expect it, and being pretty obvious (via mouse-over pointer change). You want to drag the scroll bar? -- well, just drag it (or, that thin line all along it). You made the analogy with grabbing a frame edge; that's a good analogy: everyone is used to doing that -- there is nothing exotic about grabbing and dragging such a "thin line". That would be a lot better, IMO, than what we have now. - Drew -----Original Message----- From: Kim F. Storm As I said, mouse-over for a scroll-bar is out of emacs' control. If we are to do something here, we would add a thin line on the side of the scrollbar and the user would have to be precise to grab that line (like grabbing the edge of a frame)... > Needing to mouse-over to find the existing > tiny thin line between _mode-lines_, however, is not good. Intuitively, you > don't go mousing around between two mode-lines to find where to drag the > scroll-bar. Didn't you have to mouse around in 20.x to discover what the square area did? I don't see the difference...