From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Getting more info on a variable in Customize buffers Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 13:43:05 -0800 Message-ID: References: <003001c4f369$e79c91d0$0200a8c0@sedrcw11488> NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1104961467 8185 80.91.229.6 (5 Jan 2005 21:44:27 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 21:44:27 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jan 05 22:44:13 2005 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CmIwv-0007On-00 for ; Wed, 05 Jan 2005 22:44:13 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CmJ8B-000614-Lg for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 05 Jan 2005 16:55:51 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1CmJ83-00060i-FD for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 05 Jan 2005 16:55:43 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1CmJ82-00060F-91 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 05 Jan 2005 16:55:42 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CmJ82-0005zo-5a for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 05 Jan 2005 16:55:42 -0500 Original-Received: from [141.146.126.229] (helo=agminet02.oracle.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim 4.34) id 1CmIw4-0006e8-J3; Wed, 05 Jan 2005 16:43:21 -0500 Original-Received: from agminet02.oracle.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by agminet02.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id j05LhDc7001893; Wed, 5 Jan 2005 13:43:13 -0800 Original-Received: from rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com [138.1.191.50]) by agminet02.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id j05Lh9MH001834; Wed, 5 Jan 2005 13:43:12 -0800 Original-Received: from rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id j05Lh7h5022716; Wed, 5 Jan 2005 14:43:07 -0700 Original-Received: from dradamslap (dradams-lap.us.oracle.com [130.35.177.126]) by rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with SMTP id j05Lh6AX022692 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 5 Jan 2005 14:43:06 -0700 Original-To: "Lennart Borgman" , , "Per Abrahamsen" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 In-Reply-To: <003001c4f369$e79c91d0$0200a8c0@sedrcw11488> Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:31923 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:31923 > As I mentioned, node Easy Customization in Info tells you a few things > about how to customize variables, but it doesn't really tell you about the > Customize UI. Because that UI is not yet ideal in terms of orientation, > navigation, how-to-use, and information provided, I think that some Info > doc on the Customize UI itself would be helpful. Yes, but maybe a GUI user normally do not read manuals? Right. I already lamented the fact that the Customize GUI is so poor that it calls forth the need for doc on how to understand and use it. It should instead be self-explanatory and understandable without any doc. No one wants to read doc - especially just to figure out a user interface. I don't like that state of affairs, but we should recognize it and provide such doc as long as the problem exists. It is too often the case that doc serves a palliative purpose, filling in for poor product design - especially for GUIs. But having such doc is better than not. Even just a list of "gotcha's" and tips would help. For instance, everyone who reads this list now knows about setting `custom-unlispify-tag-names' to nil - those who don't read this list deserve to know that tip too.