From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: please review bug #13141 Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 07:10:45 -0800 Message-ID: References: <50FCEBE3.6070806@acdlabs.ru><20130121.162653.2105027028246728109.hanche@math.ntnu.no><33138BB23B3E4FF383A1AA44C6D2EF08@us.oracle.com><20130122121522.9d0dbded7956c84c2e66ce0f@gmail.com><02E2F382109247D2BA24FED9177E0610@us.oracle.com> <20130122155108.928f4e969e3def82e2da7b70@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1358867479 23364 80.91.229.3 (22 Jan 2013 15:11:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 15:11:19 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 'Harald Hanche-Olsen' , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "'Xue Fuqiao'" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jan 22 16:11:37 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1TxfVe-0000IU-P5 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2013 16:11:34 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60012 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TxfVL-0007R9-D2 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2013 10:11:15 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:37360) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TxfVF-0007Qh-6u for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2013 10:11:14 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TxfV9-0004iz-VI for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2013 10:11:09 -0500 Original-Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:21091) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TxfV9-0004ir-P1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2013 10:11:03 -0500 Original-Received: from ucsinet22.oracle.com (ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id r0MFB1TI011256 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 22 Jan 2013 15:11:02 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by ucsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r0MFB0Jf019879 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 22 Jan 2013 15:11:01 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt104.oracle.com (abhmt104.oracle.com [141.146.116.56]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r0MFAxLK027297; Tue, 22 Jan 2013 09:10:59 -0600 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.240.243) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 22 Jan 2013 07:10:59 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <20130122155108.928f4e969e3def82e2da7b70@gmail.com> Thread-Index: Ac34dUXUL1oaZJHmRhmzw4WmK3WJ2QAOmaVw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-Received-From: 141.146.126.69 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:156581 Archived-At: > > Users do not _need_ to bother with `send-mail-function', > > `sendmail-query-once', automatic saving of customized values, > > or any of the rest. > > Yes, they can just use C-c m to copy text to their preferred > mail program. The point is that the `report-emacs-bug' instructions do not even mention bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org. That is the most important piece of info for the instructions to mention. It is the ultimate aim of `report-emacs-bug'. The address is even more important than the guidelines about what information to send. > > And we neglect to simply mention the simpler case at all: > > just send an email to bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org. (We mention that > > possibility in the manual, but not in the `report-emacs-bug' > > instructions.) > > The instructions in `report-emacs-bug' are:... I'm aware that the instructions have a cross ref to the manual. That's not the same thing as the instructions telling users they can just send an email to bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org. > I think many users (including new users) will see the Info, > although some of them will not read it from the beginning to the end. And even in the manual we do not communicate the message very clearly. We first tell them to use C-c C-c and Emacs will send the report to `bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org'. Only afterward do we tell them they can send mail outside Emacs etc. The presentation in the doc is FIRST in terms of `C-c C-c' plus automatic sending and THEN, as a backup, `C-c m' plus mail client "(if your system supports it...)". This is backward. We should start by saying clearly that all you have to do is send an email to bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org. THEN we can mention `C-c m' "(if your system supports it...)". And THEN we can mention `C-c C-c' and the fact that Emacs will do it all for you, provided it is configured for that. BTW, the key `C-c m' was unwisely introduced in Emacs 24.1, presumably by someone who has not read, or has forgotten, that this key is reserved for users. Unfortunately, this bug was not caught in any review. I filed bug #13510 for it a few days ago.