From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#10451: 24.0.92; Bad cross reference in Info manual Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2012 11:19:43 -0800 Message-ID: References: <831uraf4h7.fsf@gnu.org> <83zkdydnfp.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1326050465 32352 80.91.229.12 (8 Jan 2012 19:21:05 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2012 19:21:05 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 10451@debbugs.gnu.org To: "'Eli Zaretskii'" Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jan 08 20:21:01 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RjyIe-0003hk-0X for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 08 Jan 2012 20:21:00 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39147 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RjyId-0006ff-HR for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 08 Jan 2012 14:20:59 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:37153) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RjyIZ-0006ac-J2 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 08 Jan 2012 14:20:56 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RjyIW-00008D-W5 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 08 Jan 2012 14:20:55 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:55650) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RjyIW-000081-TD for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 08 Jan 2012 14:20:52 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RjyIf-00065X-TK for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 08 Jan 2012 14:21:01 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2012 19:21:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 10451 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 10451-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B10451.132605041723347 (code B ref 10451); Sun, 08 Jan 2012 19:21:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 10451) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Jan 2012 19:20:17 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50323 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RjyHx-00064V-0M for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 08 Jan 2012 14:20:17 -0500 Original-Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com ([141.146.126.227]:39628) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1RjyHq-00063v-SH for 10451@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 08 Jan 2012 14:20:15 -0500 Original-Received: from ucsinet22.oracle.com (ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.4) with ESMTP id q08JJsqX022752 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 8 Jan 2012 19:19:55 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt358.oracle.com (acsmt358.oracle.com [141.146.40.158]) by ucsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q08JJrpE002790 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 8 Jan 2012 19:19:53 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt118.oracle.com (abhmt118.oracle.com [141.146.116.70]) by acsmt358.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id q08JJqPu020721; Sun, 8 Jan 2012 13:19:52 -0600 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.35.13) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sun, 08 Jan 2012 11:19:52 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <83zkdydnfp.fsf@gnu.org> Thread-Index: AczOOLIxrAR3ybPwTKuY3tfaR9MerAAABiGA X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94] X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A020206.4F09EC5B.006A,ss=1,re=0.000,fgs=0 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:55550 Archived-At: > This is not the one I had in mind. It's the one I pretty clearly cited: >> Please note that the links I am talking about are in node >> `Help Xref', not in node `Expert Info'. And in the same mail I quoted the same text from node `Help Xref' (twice now). > If you are talking about this one, Yes, I am talking about node `Help Xref'. > then there's another problem: this manual also comes with the Texinfo > package. If that reference is changed to point to the Emacs manual, > it will be broken for someone who installs the Texinfo manual and > doesn't have the Emacs manual installed. I addressed that in the original bug report: >> I realize that the Info manual is not only for Emacs. Still, many >> readers will read it in Emacs, and this is borne out by some of the >> manual text that says things like "If you are reading this in Emacs...". >> >> It is likely that at least as many readers of the Info manual will have >> the Emacs manual (and perhaps some other manuals that are provided with >> Emacs) as will have the Texinfo manual installed. And most Info users >> will never be creating Info files and thus using Texinfo. And no, it is not true that "this [Info] manual also comes with the Texinfo package". That might be true sometimes, but it is not true in general. That's the point. If the `Info' manual always came with the `Texinfo' manual then I would not have filed this bug report - the links would just work. Please read what I wrote. For an Emacs distribution (this is an _Emacs_ bug report), it is not always the case that Emacs is distributed with Texinfo (and rightly so, IMHO). If you can find a way to make the text be such that it works for Info with Texinfo (and perhaps without Emacs) as well as working for Info with Emacs but without Texinfo, fine. Barring that, let's please fix this for Emacs users - people who will read Info within Emacs, and who will not necessarily also have the Texinfo manual installed.