From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Unuseful keybindings Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2012 16:55:38 -0800 Message-ID: References: <87sj73qzvl.fsf@gmail.com> <87623zquvw.fsf@gmail.com> <87ip7zdud3.fsf@gmail.com> <87ehiiu5x7.fsf@gnu.org> <876A7D1112084247AE53F7EE42B4587C@us.oracle.com> <80ehih3hlj.fsf@somewhere.org> <87pq21iwrw.fsf@yandex.ru> <87AE81CEB91846DB94BC5F3B40C788DE@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1356224171 23543 80.91.229.3 (23 Dec 2012 00:56:11 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2012 00:56:11 +0000 (UTC) Cc: public-emacs-devel-mXXj517/zsQ@plane.gmane.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, 'Sebastien Vauban' , 'Dmitry Gutov' To: "'Mathias Dahl'" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Dec 23 01:56:26 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1TmZrU-0000kr-6Y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 23 Dec 2012 01:56:16 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:32865 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TmZrF-0003Dq-Uc for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 22 Dec 2012 19:56:01 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:57626) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TmZrB-0003Dk-4R for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 22 Dec 2012 19:56:00 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TmZr5-0003Rf-NN for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 22 Dec 2012 19:55:57 -0500 Original-Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:20435) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TmZr5-0003Qi-F4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 22 Dec 2012 19:55:51 -0500 Original-Received: from ucsinet22.oracle.com (ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id qBN0tmbg032310 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 23 Dec 2012 00:55:49 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt357.oracle.com (acsmt357.oracle.com [141.146.40.157]) by ucsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id qBN0tlji022230 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 23 Dec 2012 00:55:47 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt106.oracle.com (abhmt106.oracle.com [141.146.116.58]) by acsmt357.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id qBN0tkMa031772; Sat, 22 Dec 2012 18:55:47 -0600 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/71.202.147.44) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sat, 22 Dec 2012 16:55:46 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 Thread-Index: Ac3goznxYcyXktAzT/qen5dAfpuNMgAAisdA X-Source-IP: ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-Received-From: 141.146.126.69 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:155793 Archived-At: >> So you buy the argument that if there is no default binding for >> some key (ANY key), and someone uses it conventionally outside Emacs >> (for ANYthing), then Emacs should hurry to get on board and have the >> same binding by default. > > Did anyone really say that? To hurry, etc. Well, the proposal is to add this default binding NOW, not later. I argued for waiting, doing nothing now, so we can more easily do something better later if we like. Actually, I argued that only conditionally - conditional on the absence of any real arguments in favor of making that change NOW. So far, nothing specific regarding `f11' or fullscreen toggling. And actually, I don't care so much about `f11' as I do about getting some good, Emacs-specific reasons for binding it by default. Nothing so far. As for the rest of it, yes: we have seen precisely that argument - ANY unused key, outside convention for ANYthing that could be used in Emacs.