From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Adrian Robert Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#1993: 23.0.60; Emacs.app has only transparent window background Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 12:11:00 +0545 Message-ID: References: <2047928B-CCE1-4A20-9280-B671282A819F@Freenet.DE> Reply-To: Adrian Robert , 1993@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1238827452 15048 80.91.229.12 (4 Apr 2009 06:44:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 06:44:12 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 1993@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com, Peter Dyballa To: David Reitter Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Apr 04 08:45:29 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1LpzdA-0006lo-8k for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 08:45:29 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35610 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Lpzbm-0007ez-0H for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 02:44:02 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Lpzbh-0007eh-7L for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 02:43:57 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Lpzbb-0007e6-9E for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 02:43:55 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=51686 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Lpzbb-0007dy-0A for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 02:43:51 -0400 Original-Received: from rzlab.ucr.edu ([138.23.92.77]:35335) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Lpzba-0005hG-54 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 02:43:50 -0400 Original-Received: from rzlab.ucr.edu (rzlab.ucr.edu [127.0.0.1]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n346hlsC021465; Fri, 3 Apr 2009 23:43:47 -0700 Original-Received: (from debbugs@localhost) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) id n346U3G9017677; Fri, 3 Apr 2009 23:30:03 -0700 X-Loop: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com Resent-From: Adrian Robert Resent-To: bug-submit-list@donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs , owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com Resent-Date: Sat, 04 Apr 2009 06:30:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: followup 1993 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs,ns X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 1993-submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B1993.123882629916292 (code B ref 1993); Sat, 04 Apr 2009 06:30:03 +0000 Original-Received: (at 1993) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 4 Apr 2009 06:24:59 +0000 X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. Original-Received: from ti-out-0910.google.com (ti-out-0910.google.com [209.85.142.190]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n346OtNv016286 for <1993@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Fri, 3 Apr 2009 23:24:56 -0700 Original-Received: by ti-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id u3so1314429tia.1 for <1993@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 23:24:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:content-type:message-id:cc:content-transfer-encoding :from:subject:date:to:x-mailer; bh=87L/JWcl3/fEiQBLR3Fbx5VEphyulI9YvdmLTjClBmU=; b=n/iaJWcK22MMK0Bwq9u4d93wj6lh4iyWT/OndmS45rFk+TByRHjgNTgy7isd0EkIW5 AoJGi7anqpGy/1rCDwHUnEoQ3X3jpP75EQ7cr5uPs4VuxUcc2ZD7kyIxy+sjM7hrxTPw petOPs1RAulUuJ2SFzgT92Ps5LgYpLC8nCBLU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:message-id:cc :content-transfer-encoding:from:subject:date:to:x-mailer; b=sX0mkA0dvyv225AuisVk2g6S/iKoleeQlxR1Fcy395/uK3rymfD4NY8eCWE7+TgXZO rvoFWcPVCT4a7/pkqvovynDKtwFo8Zav+LBTyemPuWY1RBVeH5tvaIVvED77wMuQwWCh pRpRyIReZaICvVLmityjt68mK3lQGqY+h4Qww= Original-Received: by 10.110.10.16 with SMTP id 16mr2982572tij.10.1238826294456; Fri, 03 Apr 2009 23:24:54 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from ?192.168.111.202? (gprs-prx.spicenepal.com [116.68.208.84]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id y3sm366640tia.23.2009.04.03.23.24.46 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Fri, 03 Apr 2009 23:24:53 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.753.1) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) Resent-Date: Sat, 04 Apr 2009 02:43:55 -0400 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:26900 Archived-At: On Mar 29, 2009, at 5:11 AM, David Reitter wrote: > Adrian, should we change this to match the Carbon Emacs default? > Your ns-compatibility-mode (forgot exact name) could change that, > of course, but without it, we don't have too many Mac like keys > bound. Traditional Emacs users tend to want a Meta key, while most > users of non-English keyboard layouts will need Option very > regularly to do tasks often done in Emacs {like C/Java/... > programming}. Hi, I will just give my thoughts on this, but since this port is a community project it is not necessarily my decision what to do. The reason to prefer command = command is that emacs can then use similar accelerator keybindings to other os x apps. The reason to prefer command = meta is that emacs can use similar non-ascii latin character entry to other os x apps. Which is preferred for a given user depends on two questions: 1) is the user in continental Europe? 2) is the user editing code or text? Why (2)? Now that I've been living on the continent myself for a while, I've noticed that programmers here often just use a US keyboard layout even if they have a physically non-US keyboard. It's just too much of a hassle to get commonly-needed special characters otherwise. So my feeling is that the command=meta option is preferred by text- writing Continentals, while command = command is likely preferred by everyone else. I am not sure which group makes up a larger subset of OS X emacs users. I do know that I received a few complaints over the years from folks disliking the Emacs.app command=command default. My answer was always to rehash the above and note that it's easy to change it -- just flip a combo box in the prefs panel. Now that it's not so easy (I guess figuring out the existence of ns/mac-command-modifier variable and writing suitable elisp to .emacs is necessary), the default setting becomes more important. >> Could be done, but I think we should stick to one default for all >> layouts. >> > > Then the system's one. No artificial changes. I agree with both of these. So perhaps the best default would be command=command (super), alt=none, and the user can set a meta key (additional to esc+) if he/she desires. -Adrian