From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Emacs learning curve Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 06:49:36 -0700 Message-ID: References: E65F619BF1ED4EF594C6E363871DCB53@us.oracle.com <4C3DF076.1000208@gmx.de><8C32E8077A2247548528D6657198F388@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1279201828 21716 80.91.229.12 (15 Jul 2010 13:50:28 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 13:50:28 +0000 (UTC) To: "'Uday S Reddy'" , Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jul 15 15:50:24 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OZOpP-0000yM-Fh for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 15:50:19 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40667 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OZOpO-0005vJ-QG for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 09:50:18 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=47948 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OZOpC-0005tI-8g for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 09:50:11 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OZOp7-0005Mz-FP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 09:50:06 -0400 Original-Received: from rcsinet10.oracle.com ([148.87.113.121]:26479) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OZOp7-0005MI-A2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 09:50:01 -0400 Original-Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by rcsinet10.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id o6FDnnbt009496 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 15 Jul 2010 13:49:51 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt353.oracle.com (acsmt353.oracle.com [141.146.40.153]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o6FAhxMY003896; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 13:49:48 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt004.oracle.com by acsmt353.oracle.com with ESMTP id 407994171279201782; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 06:49:42 -0700 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.175.246.70) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Thu, 15 Jul 2010 06:49:41 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: Acsj+HC10xjnSKqiTpq/eu7KTiCIBQAKLkBw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5931 X-Source-IP: acsmt353.oracle.com [141.146.40.153] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A0B020A.4C3F11FD.00EE:SCFMA4539814,ss=1,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:127352 Archived-At: > > Dragging is a kind of scrolling. > > If you say so! Dragging is simply one way to make the view and paper move relative to each other. Have you used applications where dragging can optionally be limited to only purely vertical or only purely horizontal, in addition to being free-rein? (E.g. holding a modifier key such as shift while dragging.) There are many ways to initiate/effect scrolling, as I'm sure you would agree. Even the history of scroll bars alone is rich with variation in approach and behavior. No doubt you and I both would find much of it unnatural now, though it appeared natural enough to those using it or experimenting with it at the time. There are even arguments here about Emacs scroll bar behavior from time to time. Perhap you naturally drive on the left. I naturally drive on the right. I am not making the argument that only driving on the right is "natural". Would you be making such an argument for driving on the left perchance? > According to you, the human user identifies with the > document being edited No, I did not say that. I said that humans are capable of identifying with _either_ the window or the document when they move relative to each other. I did not say that humans identify only with the document. They _can_ do so, and in some applications/contexts, they do do so.