From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Reitter Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#2532: NS: ns-expand-space / slider in Preferences dialog not functional Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 14:35:55 -0500 Message-ID: References: <21F51971-5679-45BF-85A0-D982CA73E722@gmail.com> <5393D476-3312-4DF3-AF39-6D698B7FDA49@gmail.com> Reply-To: David Reitter , 2532@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=Apple-Mail-57-362918033; micalg=sha1; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature" X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1236369923 23804 80.91.229.12 (6 Mar 2009 20:05:23 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 20:05:23 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 2532@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com, Emacs-Devel devel To: Adrian Robert Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Mar 06 21:06:39 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1LfgJG-0000i9-F9 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 06 Mar 2009 21:06:18 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51830 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1LfgHv-0004d8-5j for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 06 Mar 2009 15:04:55 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1LfgGs-0004Aa-P5 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 06 Mar 2009 15:03:50 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1LfgGo-00047T-1N for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 06 Mar 2009 15:03:48 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=46541 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1LfgGm-00046t-KD for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 06 Mar 2009 15:03:44 -0500 Original-Received: from rzlab.ucr.edu ([138.23.92.77]:39797) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1LfgGl-0005La-AA for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 06 Mar 2009 15:03:43 -0500 Original-Received: from rzlab.ucr.edu (rzlab.ucr.edu [127.0.0.1]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n26K3dIu023165; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 12:03:40 -0800 Original-Received: (from debbugs@localhost) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) id n26Jj6An018521; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 11:45:06 -0800 X-Loop: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com Resent-From: David Reitter Resent-To: bug-submit-list@donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs , owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com Resent-Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 19:45:05 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: followup 2532 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs,ns X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 2532-submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B2532.123636816716842 (code B ref 2532); Fri, 06 Mar 2009 19:45:05 +0000 Original-Received: (at 2532) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 6 Mar 2009 19:36:07 +0000 X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. Original-Received: from mail-qy0-f113.google.com (mail-qy0-f113.google.com [209.85.221.113]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n26Ja4Tg016836 for <2532@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 11:36:05 -0800 Original-Received: by qyk11 with SMTP id 11so267199qyk.19 for <2532@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Fri, 06 Mar 2009 11:35:58 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:cc:message-id:from:to :in-reply-to:content-type:mime-version:subject:date:references :x-mailer; bh=+Vzag/wabTocKWPSCE/k5+yalhlNx2t62910I3BxL/o=; b=unk+sjb7D/EAyahKXTBQlzr/kbCzguQrIMWhVwsl00FNVBUSc2vbnFy0VraAmNCUMo bc8zoyMp2W7FrMnWaIw9qjuewmv7buIwUWZMzLRDtk7bLw3QjZYSZKfPWru/bfn48hHm VjhHf1WPg0ZYHefBV44vXbOaz5RYDsyOKxkr0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=cc:message-id:from:to:in-reply-to:content-type:mime-version:subject :date:references:x-mailer; b=Co/K7V/a9ZVIdJ4zlt0GnoHWVf22Zm5jBNZ6yPDmXrWCp/ymxSCSt/eS7BlGYJe4t2 pqVtA7v7J9xAHTxgcIP8ed3fuuysrDv3iy6DgI6eyR28Ss/gtVirsxZZ1J75uDGIjlxZ 1jsl6M1VPq8/x42Yjn5apTFbnMCRq2EH2rzyg= Original-Received: by 10.224.28.207 with SMTP id n15mr4300218qac.92.1236368158713; Fri, 06 Mar 2009 11:35:58 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from SCARLETT.PSY.CMU.EDU (SCARLETT.PSY.CMU.EDU [128.2.249.106]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 8sm1205158qwj.36.2009.03.06.11.35.56 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Fri, 06 Mar 2009 11:35:57 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) Resent-Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 15:03:48 -0500 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:26070 Archived-At: --Apple-Mail-57-362918033 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 6 Mar 2009, at 14:20, Adrian Robert wrote: > This is no longer true -- running -q or -Q now ignores the plist -- > though not X resources, I believe. The one difference between the > NS defaults and X resources is that the defaults system is read/ > write, whereas X resources are for some strange reason read-only by > design. After various discussion here, I now believe this > difference is fundamental, and that the NS defaults system should > therefore be used in Emacs only internally for parameters that are > specific to NS and not set by users. This includes reading existing > system settings like anti-aliasing threshold, as well as storing > previous directories and window locations for file open/save > dialogs. Completely behind-the-scenes stuff. Yes, I agree. It's great that there is now a way to access the NS defaults system. I would advocate, however, to only use the NS prefs systems for variables that cannot be implemented with the customization system, i.e. stuff that needs to be initialized on startup, because user files are read. > I am not sure if it is appropriate to do this under pretest, > however. It would be a user-visible change and potentially cause > unexpected side effects. Up to the maintainers to decide: Is "user-visibility" the right criterion? (Bug fixes are user-visible!) Shouldn't it be "dangerous" vs. not, and "bug fixes" vs. "features", and "recent regressions" vs. not? -- http://aquamacs.org -- Aquamacs: Emacs on Mac OS X http://aquamacs.org/donate -- Could we help you? Return the favor and support the Aquamacs Project! --Apple-Mail-57-362918033 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=smime.p7s Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name=smime.p7s Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIFxDCCAn0w ggHmoAMCAQICED6shx13jEDrq0eL8FRq5ykwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwYjELMAkGA1UEBhMCWkEx JTAjBgNVBAoTHFRoYXd0ZSBDb25zdWx0aW5nIChQdHkpIEx0ZC4xLDAqBgNVBAMTI1RoYXd0ZSBQ ZXJzb25hbCBGcmVlbWFpbCBJc3N1aW5nIENBMB4XDTA4MTIwOTAyMDgwMVoXDTA5MTIwOTAyMDgw MVowYjEQMA4GA1UEBBMHUmVpdHRlcjEOMAwGA1UEKhMFRGF2aWQxFjAUBgNVBAMTDURhdmlkIFJl aXR0ZXIxJjAkBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEWF2RhdmlkLnJlaXR0ZXJAZ21haWwuY29tMIGfMA0GCSqGSIb3 DQEBAQUAA4GNADCBiQKBgQDOdo6kAwlkBxUb8dj4saMbYg4SVng8CUePFn3cjjWrakBTbUVa4Z0n wlUxr7AitEeKhBy5nGhu96+jKUPrCwYNRCZ0l2ovvuGq4z1m1nZ5/c8WvFlVhieuxXMUfmb/O7D3 IojoX6iS8n5MNNU2IWNNT/AD3vOl6DKgOtOw4J9y+QIDAQABozQwMjAiBgNVHREEGzAZgRdkYXZp ZC5yZWl0dGVyQGdtYWlsLmNvbTAMBgNVHRMBAf8EAjAAMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAA4GBAIjI8yEW wkiEfA9PMgpjnD6KyCXT0iZjHhW2PkR53yZZLUoTboHnKgsFwYp/gzzIL8J5cvZaRUyMUzXDufPP dRmxxCs2jXXLDD/8bvdvOuMzqgYoFA73fAfsC8S6qUL1PayZ90J8CZHNhDwqWqOA56T+DdKUegJT sqoHKh6OnypTMIIDPzCCAqigAwIBAgIBDTANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQUFADCB0TELMAkGA1UEBhMCWkEx FTATBgNVBAgTDFdlc3Rlcm4gQ2FwZTESMBAGA1UEBxMJQ2FwZSBUb3duMRowGAYDVQQKExFUaGF3 dGUgQ29uc3VsdGluZzEoMCYGA1UECxMfQ2VydGlmaWNhdGlvbiBTZXJ2aWNlcyBEaXZpc2lvbjEk MCIGA1UEAxMbVGhhd3RlIFBlcnNvbmFsIEZyZWVtYWlsIENBMSswKQYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFhxwZXJz b25hbC1mcmVlbWFpbEB0aGF3dGUuY29tMB4XDTAzMDcxNzAwMDAwMFoXDTEzMDcxNjIzNTk1OVow YjELMAkGA1UEBhMCWkExJTAjBgNVBAoTHFRoYXd0ZSBDb25zdWx0aW5nIChQdHkpIEx0ZC4xLDAq BgNVBAMTI1RoYXd0ZSBQZXJzb25hbCBGcmVlbWFpbCBJc3N1aW5nIENBMIGfMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEB AQUAA4GNADCBiQKBgQDEpjxVc1X7TrnKmVoeaMB1BHCd3+n/ox7svc31W/Iadr1/DDph8r9RzgHU 5VAKMNcCY1osiRVwjt3J8CuFWqo/cVbLrzwLB+fxH5E2JCoTzyvV84J3PQO+K/67GD4Hv0CAAmTX p6a7n2XRxSpUhQ9IBH+nttE8YQRAHmQZcmC3+wIDAQABo4GUMIGRMBIGA1UdEwEB/wQIMAYBAf8C AQAwQwYDVR0fBDwwOjA4oDagNIYyaHR0cDovL2NybC50aGF3dGUuY29tL1RoYXd0ZVBlcnNvbmFs RnJlZW1haWxDQS5jcmwwCwYDVR0PBAQDAgEGMCkGA1UdEQQiMCCkHjAcMRowGAYDVQQDExFQcml2 YXRlTGFiZWwyLTEzODANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQUFAAOBgQBIjNFQg+oLLswNo2asZw9/r6y+whehQ5aU nX9MIbj4Nh+qLZ82L8D0HFAgk3A8/a3hYWLD2ToZfoSxmRsAxRoLgnSeJVCUYsfbJ3FXJY3dqZw5 jowgT2Vfldr394fWxghOrvbqNOUQGls1TXfjViF4gtwhGTXeJLHTHUb/XV9lTzGCAo8wggKLAgEB MHYwYjELMAkGA1UEBhMCWkExJTAjBgNVBAoTHFRoYXd0ZSBDb25zdWx0aW5nIChQdHkpIEx0ZC4x LDAqBgNVBAMTI1RoYXd0ZSBQZXJzb25hbCBGcmVlbWFpbCBJc3N1aW5nIENBAhA+rIcdd4xA66tH i/BUaucpMAkGBSsOAwIaBQCgggFvMBgGCSqGSIb3DQEJAzELBgkqhkiG9w0BBwEwHAYJKoZIhvcN AQkFMQ8XDTA5MDMwNjE5MzU1NlowIwYJKoZIhvcNAQkEMRYEFA6xTQybHU9pEhBVEAp49vuzSh/e MIGFBgkrBgEEAYI3EAQxeDB2MGIxCzAJBgNVBAYTAlpBMSUwIwYDVQQKExxUaGF3dGUgQ29uc3Vs dGluZyAoUHR5KSBMdGQuMSwwKgYDVQQDEyNUaGF3dGUgUGVyc29uYWwgRnJlZW1haWwgSXNzdWlu ZyBDQQIQPqyHHXeMQOurR4vwVGrnKTCBhwYLKoZIhvcNAQkQAgsxeKB2MGIxCzAJBgNVBAYTAlpB MSUwIwYDVQQKExxUaGF3dGUgQ29uc3VsdGluZyAoUHR5KSBMdGQuMSwwKgYDVQQDEyNUaGF3dGUg UGVyc29uYWwgRnJlZW1haWwgSXNzdWluZyBDQQIQPqyHHXeMQOurR4vwVGrnKTANBgkqhkiG9w0B AQEFAASBgKf77hezIfNx39WS4v7ufmegBAmwLGjvaQhEhjqScBi7keVhCOxjBq29vtQcAvAl4qcZ Xh8x4BM3J3QqSeXyDNxXGSQu60mEd8zHjPvC5UMtdfskCL74nuUYRlWw7FXL2DO6N1aHSl+3We3G 8NV5w9F7/LfEE9YnAJd8IprPFqxfAAAAAAAA --Apple-Mail-57-362918033--