From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Qiantan Hong Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.tangents Subject: Re: crdt.el: proposal that server enforces the mode\ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2020 00:16:56 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20201018092201.GG9782@protected.rcdrun.com> <2F36D10F-A179-445D-9417-65194F1CF2F1@mit.edu> <241BE8A8-1CCE-403F-B9D8-41B01DD1967D@mit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_72E94778-F935-4FDB-9D2C-655D5784D6CE"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-256 Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="25232"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: "emacs-tangents@gnu.org" To: Jean Louis Original-X-From: emacs-tangents-bounces+get-emacs-tangents=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Oct 22 03:14:50 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kVPBp-0006Q8-Io for get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 22 Oct 2020 03:14:49 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55544 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kVPBo-0006A1-KI for get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 21 Oct 2020 21:14:48 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:51844) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kVOHx-0002Dj-9a for emacs-tangents@gnu.org; Wed, 21 Oct 2020 20:17:05 -0400 Original-Received: from outgoing-exchange-7.mit.edu ([18.9.28.58]:60568) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kVOHt-0005Uq-TR for emacs-tangents@gnu.org; Wed, 21 Oct 2020 20:17:04 -0400 Original-Received: from w92exedge4.exchange.mit.edu (W92EXEDGE4.EXCHANGE.MIT.EDU [18.7.73.16]) by outgoing-exchange-7.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id 09M0GoY2003088; Wed, 21 Oct 2020 20:16:59 -0400 Original-Received: from w92expo16.exchange.mit.edu (18.7.74.70) by w92exedge4.exchange.mit.edu (18.7.73.16) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1293.2; Wed, 21 Oct 2020 20:16:41 -0400 Original-Received: from oc11expo16.exchange.mit.edu (18.9.4.47) by w92expo16.exchange.mit.edu (18.7.74.70) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1365.1; Wed, 21 Oct 2020 20:16:56 -0400 Original-Received: from oc11expo16.exchange.mit.edu ([18.9.4.47]) by oc11expo16.exchange.mit.edu ([18.9.4.47]) with mapi id 15.00.1365.000; Wed, 21 Oct 2020 20:16:56 -0400 Thread-Topic: crdt.el: proposal that server enforces the mode\ Thread-Index: AQHWqAgFk3xkRu8dz0qAQzPc8jFaLqmjBEmA In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [18.18.245.17] Received-SPF: pass client-ip=18.9.28.58; envelope-from=qhong@mit.edu; helo=outgoing-exchange-7.mit.edu X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/10/21 20:16:59 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Windows 7 (Websense crawler) X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 21 Oct 2020 21:14:14 -0400 X-BeenThere: emacs-tangents@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-tangents-bounces+get-emacs-tangents=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-tangents" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.tangents:424 Archived-At: --Apple-Mail=_72E94778-F935-4FDB-9D2C-655D5784D6CE Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 >=20 >> I=E2=80=99m not sure about the idea of letting the server = =E2=80=9Cdictate=E2=80=9D >> anything. Emotionally I don=E2=80=99t like it =E2=80=94 I try to = avoid power >> hierarchy. And technically, I can synchronize Boolean variable also >> using CRDT. >=20 > dictate >=20 > * Overview of verb dictate >=20 > The verb dictate has 3 senses (first 2 from tagged texts) > 1. (8) order, prescribe, dictate -- (issue commands or orders for) > 2. (1) dictate -- (say out loud for the purpose of recording; "He = dictated a report to his secretary") > 3. dictate -- (rule as a dictator) >=20 > My usage of dictate is in the sense of definition 1, not 3, so when > you press a key in Emacs you already issue some commands, if you share > a buffer, you dictate that it is shared, right? >=20 > crdt.el shall be collaborative, with many factors in synchronization. >=20 So in this occasion particularly, I=E2=80=99m asking whether should the = server decide exclusively what minor-mode to enable, or values of buffer local = variables, or any client can change it? For Boolean variables (like on/off of minor modes), I can give write = access to every peer and synchronize it using PN counter CRDT. I can also do = similar thing to some other buffer local variables with the help of some = annotations. However, (although I don=E2=80=99t like it very much), I think one can = argue that giving server exclusive write permission avoid communicational conflicts or = even chaos. What do you think?= --Apple-Mail=_72E94778-F935-4FDB-9D2C-655D5784D6CE Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExDzANBglghkgBZQMEAgEFADCABgkqhkiG9w0BBwEAAKCCA70w ggO5MIIDIqADAgECAhAaql39NsO1qLVjkS2hl517MA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBCwUAMGwxCzAJBgNVBAYT AlVTMRYwFAYDVQQIEw1NYXNzYWNodXNldHRzMS4wLAYDVQQKEyVNYXNzYWNodXNldHRzIEluc3Rp dHV0ZSBvZiBUZWNobm9sb2d5MRUwEwYDVQQLEwxDbGllbnQgQ0EgdjEwHhcNMjAwODAzMDEyNDIz WhcNMjEwODAxMDEyNDIzWjCBoTELMAkGA1UEBhMCVVMxFjAUBgNVBAgTDU1hc3NhY2h1c2V0dHMx LjAsBgNVBAoTJU1hc3NhY2h1c2V0dHMgSW5zdGl0dXRlIG9mIFRlY2hub2xvZ3kxFTATBgNVBAsT DENsaWVudCBDQSB2MTEVMBMGA1UEAxMMUWlhbnRhbiBIb25nMRwwGgYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFg1xaG9u Z0BNSVQuRURVMIIBIjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOCAQ8AMIIBCgKCAQEAylUlEQdK4BSXKzoGh6As CKN/TpLmC0kjhPdxUKMj1/86Xl6GDCla4h95uISDOWVAKdu3cIlA8m9zRLT2jNEIkt1DVpXP6c9h y8RRyfJm0qlrvr6tsHi5AmO4Li6s2dEGaTxbakPL6vEn7ZYr86t5orq56nubki77Z8ZvRv9/fWdF bF/YBNGDayLNk0NbXIEQdCHiz1l+bxfw+GHHRmdOge3MKWSg463+GGMdxtLQ61AbtR2vm47FIJBt c0X6ptcInWUg4Nf/9vSNGl6KvREvfbEWKCT6TfL5ncIFlitf6ZWKue2PZ4ULFfIQ3/7EsEk03xxr S7sTOy7e2dbPboe/WwIDAQABo4GhMIGeMAkGA1UdEwQCMAAwEQYJYIZIAYb4QgEBBAQDAgWgMB0G A1UdJQQWMBQGCCsGAQUFBwMEBggrBgEFBQcDAjALBgNVHQ8EBAMCBeAwHQYDVR0OBBYEFDeb9Jlj XSm+y0CD872IhzRDIGv1MDMGA1UdHwQsMCowKKAmoCSGImh0dHA6Ly9jYS5taXQuZWR1L2NhL21p dGNsaWVudC5jcmwwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQELBQADgYEApBTx4tBbD5rQ+bNGd/Z3OBV07qFsm5QHNg0+ 6lxJ3j7q5zMMq35o6y5cBIhcFG6t+MFqJIdERZ3EprDturyqozQsIBMHFnqh+iZcMg0uQyssEqKZ hrzIdw8GuY4Z6jNewdGy5mwwG9yjpEbzWWgdofSM5rnezZz7EvCQu9ilt1sxggNDMIIDPwIBATCB gDBsMQswCQYDVQQGEwJVUzEWMBQGA1UECBMNTWFzc2FjaHVzZXR0czEuMCwGA1UEChMlTWFzc2Fj aHVzZXR0cyBJbnN0aXR1dGUgb2YgVGVjaG5vbG9neTEVMBMGA1UECxMMQ2xpZW50IENBIHYxAhAa ql39NsO1qLVjkS2hl517MA0GCWCGSAFlAwQCAQUAoIIBkzAYBgkqhkiG9w0BCQMxCwYJKoZIhvcN AQcBMBwGCSqGSIb3DQEJBTEPFw0yMDEwMjIwMDE2NTZaMC8GCSqGSIb3DQEJBDEiBCCUV5T2xAAD ofYjIU1+op7NylqZzsQO/1/OB+K5ulVpVTCBkQYJKwYBBAGCNxAEMYGDMIGAMGwxCzAJBgNVBAYT AlVTMRYwFAYDVQQIEw1NYXNzYWNodXNldHRzMS4wLAYDVQQKEyVNYXNzYWNodXNldHRzIEluc3Rp dHV0ZSBvZiBUZWNobm9sb2d5MRUwEwYDVQQLEwxDbGllbnQgQ0EgdjECEBqqXf02w7WotWORLaGX nXswgZMGCyqGSIb3DQEJEAILMYGDoIGAMGwxCzAJBgNVBAYTAlVTMRYwFAYDVQQIEw1NYXNzYWNo dXNldHRzMS4wLAYDVQQKEyVNYXNzYWNodXNldHRzIEluc3RpdHV0ZSBvZiBUZWNobm9sb2d5MRUw EwYDVQQLEwxDbGllbnQgQ0EgdjECEBqqXf02w7WotWORLaGXnXswDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQAEggEA jyAhDu8GrecEcImV2n1Y+zx8NSpuABBuDtYxEXrXBFZgQ2nMIkIn+uGhXXtJwEFXanb8kI0s5qYT wS/jnDj/oVXPEBmmH46jfSQVYoc0FT3OitogaZ0UF1KZ/CUKe9y5HpUhL3pcYuoJc9f75q6GQCN/ uqA8JFyReKZFaTUJRe8VRCUyt/ekPNnToYkcmIi3G4+oAOU6GT6Yguzgf5nqDF0bLwqXsgJICv25 Qfwhz6L9Dnzfl9OwsHMKLqlSaUIgdEy11t9Bdb/UfumDdiH7sUz9WAFA1v/JoV0ULeWDGuO4dhjK 35SlcjTu3vdHHxBHE3tpKBOWXm6MnfuvFQf8swAAAAAAAA== --Apple-Mail=_72E94778-F935-4FDB-9D2C-655D5784D6CE--