From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Reitter Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Enabling Transient Mark Mode by default Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:27:06 +0000 Message-ID: References: <87myq4saw1.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <200802171658.m1HGwQ4h011067@sallyv1.ics.uci.edu> <20080219085231.GA1032@muc.de> <200802190938.m1J9ccVg016565@sallyv1.ics.uci.edu> <20080219190127.GA1106@muc.de> <877ih0o9dx.fsf@catnip.gol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v919.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1203525101 22437 80.91.229.12 (20 Feb 2008 16:31:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:31:41 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Emacs Devel To: "Juanma Barranquero" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Feb 20 17:32:04 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JRrrX-0005Ya-K3 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 17:32:03 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JRrr2-000567-Gh for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:31:32 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JRrmw-0001RR-Aj for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:27:18 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JRrmr-0001NL-4H for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:27:17 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JRrmq-0001N8-Tq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:27:12 -0500 Original-Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.182.184]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JRrmq-000640-IL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:27:12 -0500 Original-Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id f5so833016nfh.26 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 08:27:11 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:cc:message-id:from:to:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:date:references:x-mailer; bh=3byeZ2a2ewh5e/PbhUSd0RQH/hLRVhQe2UzoUufC8xM=; b=dHPzUW0J8YfrxyRagE/A2DdngggmpEfXD8fVxYdtaPlkzT8/O9XQ5wSFLSXOkX4nFRgK91C5WW8oRx8ilu65IyPRqOVmck06LIlKocMVTvlUzpLIV2tSLeFLQ+EXxbXZDfmwjLG19o4KDHYsodDXfnBonYudIS70Oo/Cj0vii0k= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=cc:message-id:from:to:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:date:references:x-mailer; b=SrsvWu6lI1gkdnyyu43gw/priHp0ICq9nWnKFH+whvxSb1sipMGlKCQMgdxk0rSoGAJZteUZdBEroAXMdgzxEtK+jBa3DObfAASinJ4G8YkNTjBq7++8N+4dTIHyhFkpqs22ok9Q+jFAbOczzPYHXUrEzXz/TKvjiFQLvBaZb7A= Original-Received: by 10.78.178.5 with SMTP id a5mr13735872huf.8.1203524830449; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 08:27:10 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from scarlett.inf.ed.ac.uk ( [129.215.174.113]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id i4sm1145164nfh.26.2008.02.20.08.27.08 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 20 Feb 2008 08:27:09 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.919.2) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:89698 Archived-At: On 20 Feb 2008, at 16:04, Juanma Barranquero wrote: > Of course. But an experienced user does not *need* for Emacs to agree > with other apps he uses: he can customize it. The trouble is > unexperienced users who find themselves with (to them) weird or > unexpected behavior, and no way to fix it. We can give them familiar > defaults, or we can send them to RTFM... Absolutely. Despite some 15-20 years experience with computers, I had no Emacs and no Lisp experience. So I gave up twice until I decided to bite the bullet and switch to the only editor with Prolog support. It took me many weeks to customize it to the behavior I was used to from all my other apps. And even four years later I find myself going nuts over some things, except that I know now why they're hard to implement. By the way, I found empirically that some 80 percent of all users (exact figure eludes me now) left the Aquamacs default of opening new buffers in separate frames turned on. They're happy with it and get on with their lives. Of course there's a few others, old-time Emacs users, who don't find the big fat menu option in "Options" to turn this off, and instead bitch about it on their blogs. But I tend to look at what the majority wants, even if it might not be the best solution when ignoring the user's environment (other apps!). That's why we've got these things switched on. Including variable-width fonts for all text modes. I've never understood what hinders people from providing an "Emacs" and an "Emacs Classic", which simply differ in their default configuration. (But I also don't really care any more.)