From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Info tutorial is out of date Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 21:37:27 -0700 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1153197581 20193 80.91.229.2 (18 Jul 2006 04:39:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 04:39:41 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jul 18 06:39:40 2006 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G2hMx-0002jH-AE for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 06:39:39 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G2hMw-0005qw-Sc for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 00:39:38 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1G2hLa-0004yF-LV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 00:38:14 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1G2hLY-0004wM-TD for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 00:38:13 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G2hLY-0004vw-5d for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 00:38:12 -0400 Original-Received: from [148.87.113.118] (helo=rgminet01.oracle.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA:24) (Exim 4.52) id 1G2hOM-0005DU-Bp for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 00:41:06 -0400 Original-Received: from rcsmt251.oracle.com (rcsmt251.oracle.com [148.87.90.196]) by rgminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.6/Switch-3.1.6) with ESMTP id k6I4c9DB027252 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 22:38:09 -0600 Original-Received: from dhcp-amer-whq-csvpn-gw3-141-144-80-94.vpn.oracle.com by rcsmt250.oracle.com with ESMTP id 1578889421153197448; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 22:37:28 -0600 Original-To: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1807 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:57242 Archived-At: > > I see no reason why we can't have two versions of the tutorial. > > One reason is that it's not easy to present the right one > to the user based on her reader. Remember: learning Info is a > bootstrap-kind of problem--you learn to use a tool by using > that same tool. If we don't > make the beginning of the bootstrap 110% reliable (which includes > showing the right manual), the results will be catastrophic. > > So, how do you deal with that problem currently, since there > are apparently already two manuals? By having the Info manual be the first item in the top-level menu. And? That sounds OK to me. > Your bootstrap doesn't need to teach anything about `n' and > `p', does it? I think it does, because users should know how to navigate the structure of a manual. If the `n' and `p' stuff is a prerequisite for standalone-Info users, can't that stuff be put first for them? And if `n' and `p' is not a prerequisite for Emacs-Info users, can't it be put last? I don't understand why this is so hard. I'm not saying it's not hard; I'm saying I don't understand the problem.