[Bug] "You can't edit this part of the Custom buffer"

[Bug] "You can't edit this part of the Custom buffer"

[David Abrahams]

In this build from CVS:

  GNU Emacs 22.0.50.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2006-07-26 on I9300

Trying to use the keyboard (e.g. `Ret') to do customization (in a
*Customize Apropos* buffer, for example) fails with the error in the
title line of this post.

HTH,

-- 
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com

Re: [Bug] "You can't edit this part of the Custom buffer"

[Johan Bockgård]

David Abrahams <dave@boost-consulting.com> writes:

> In this build from CVS:
>
>   GNU Emacs 22.0.50.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2006-07-26 on I9300
>
> Trying to use the keyboard (e.g. `Ret') to do customization (in a
> *Customize Apropos* buffer, for example) fails with the error in the
> title line of this post.


2006-07-27  Johan Bockgård  <bojohan@dd.chalmers.se>

	* cus-edit.el (custom-mode-map): Don't bind RET to custom-no-edit.



--- cus-edit.el	18 Jul 2006 01:13:54 +0200	1.297
+++ cus-edit.el	27 Jul 2006 15:30:20 +0200	
@@ -4432,7 +4432,6 @@
     (set-keymap-parent map widget-keymap)
     (define-key map [remap self-insert-command]
       'custom-no-edit)
-    (define-key map "\^m" 'custom-no-edit)
     (define-key map " " 'scroll-up)
     (define-key map "\177" 'scroll-down)
     (define-key map "\C-c\C-c" 'Custom-set)


-- 
Johan Bockgård

Re: [Bug] "You can't edit this part of the Custom buffer"

[David Abrahams]

bojohan+news@dd.chalmers.se (Johan Bockgård) writes:

> 2006-07-27  Johan Bockgård  <bojohan@dd.chalmers.se>
>
> 	* cus-edit.el (custom-mode-map): Don't bind RET to custom-no-edit.
>
>
>
> --- cus-edit.el	18 Jul 2006 01:13:54 +0200	1.297
> +++ cus-edit.el	27 Jul 2006 15:30:20 +0200	
> @@ -4432,7 +4432,6 @@
>      (set-keymap-parent map widget-keymap)
>      (define-key map [remap self-insert-command]
>        'custom-no-edit)
> -    (define-key map "\^m" 'custom-no-edit)
>      (define-key map " " 'scroll-up)
>      (define-key map "\177" 'scroll-down)
>      (define-key map "\C-c\C-c" 'Custom-set)

Works, thanks!

-- 
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com

RE: [Bug] "You can't edit this part of the Custom buffer"

[Drew Adams]

Uh, are you sure this is the right thing to do? IIUC, RMS just added custom-no-edit, and bound it, to raise an error when you try to edit a non-editable part of the buffer. 

Simply removing the binding seems pointless. Perhaps the fix to the new problem should be to better determine which are the non-editable parts of the buffer, and make sure the error is only raised there?

    > In this build from CVS:
    >
    >   GNU Emacs 22.0.50.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2006-07-26 on I9300
    >
    > Trying to use the keyboard (e.g. `Ret') to do customization (in a
    > *Customize Apropos* buffer, for example) fails with the error in the
    > title line of this post.  
    
    2006-07-27  Johan Bockgård  <bojohan@dd.chalmers.se>
    
    	* cus-edit.el (custom-mode-map): Don't bind RET to custom-no-edit.
    
    --- cus-edit.el	18 Jul 2006 01:13:54 +0200	1.297
    +++ cus-edit.el	27 Jul 2006 15:30:20 +0200	
    @@ -4432,7 +4432,6 @@
         (set-keymap-parent map widget-keymap)
         (define-key map [remap self-insert-command]
           'custom-no-edit)
    -    (define-key map "\^m" 'custom-no-edit)
         (define-key map " " 'scroll-up)
         (define-key map "\177" 'scroll-down)
         (define-key map "\C-c\C-c" 'Custom-set)
    

Re: [Bug] "You can't edit this part of the Custom buffer"

[Richard Stallman]

    Trying to use the keyboard (e.g. `Ret') to do customization (in a
    *Customize Apropos* buffer, for example) fails with the error in the
    title line of this post.

Please tell us exactly what to type.

Re: [Bug] "You can't edit this part of the Custom buffer"

[Chong Yidong]

"Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com> writes:

> Uh, are you sure this is the right thing to do? IIUC, RMS just added
> custom-no-edit, and bound it, to raise an error when you try to edit
> a non-editable part of the buffer.
>
> Simply removing the binding seems pointless. Perhaps the fix to the
> new problem should be to better determine which are the non-editable
> parts of the buffer, and make sure the error is only raised there?

That was an incorrect fix.  `widget-keymap' defines "\C-m" to
'widget-field-activate, which is supposed to find the widget under
point and activate it.  It is incorrect to bind "\C-m" to
`custom-no-edit' in `custom-mode', which inherits from
`widget-keymap'.

Why was this change made in the first place?  It seems
pointless---Custom buffers are read-only, so self-insertion commands
do nothing anyway; we don't have to bind them to a 'custom-no-edit'
command that does nothing but raise an error.

>     > In this build from CVS:
>     >
>     >   GNU Emacs 22.0.50.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2006-07-26 on I9300
>     >
>     > Trying to use the keyboard (e.g. `Ret') to do customization (in a
>     > *Customize Apropos* buffer, for example) fails with the error in the
>     > title line of this post.  
>     
>     2006-07-27  Johan Bockgård  <bojohan@dd.chalmers.se>
>     
>     	* cus-edit.el (custom-mode-map): Don't bind RET to custom-no-edit.
>     
>     --- cus-edit.el	18 Jul 2006 01:13:54 +0200	1.297
>     +++ cus-edit.el	27 Jul 2006 15:30:20 +0200	
>     @@ -4432,7 +4432,6 @@
>          (set-keymap-parent map widget-keymap)
>          (define-key map [remap self-insert-command]
>            'custom-no-edit)
>     -    (define-key map "\^m" 'custom-no-edit)
>          (define-key map " " 'scroll-up)
>          (define-key map "\177" 'scroll-down)
>          (define-key map "\C-c\C-c" 'Custom-set)

Re: [Bug] "You can't edit this part of the Custom buffer"

[David Abrahams]

Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

>     Trying to use the keyboard (e.g. `Ret') to do customization (in a
>     *Customize Apropos* buffer, for example) fails with the error in the
>     title line of this post.
>
> Please tell us exactly what to type.

1. `M-x customize-apropos newline'

2. Move cursor over any button in current buffer

3. `Ret'

But Johan Bockgård already posted a fix for this problem.

-- 
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com

RE: [Bug] "You can't edit this part of the Custom buffer"

[Drew Adams]

    > Uh, are you sure this is the right thing to do? IIUC, RMS just added
    > custom-no-edit, and bound it, to raise an error when you try to edit
    > a non-editable part of the buffer.
    >
    > Simply removing the binding seems pointless. Perhaps the fix to the
    > new problem should be to better determine which are the non-editable
    > parts of the buffer, and make sure the error is only raised there?
    
    That was an incorrect fix.  `widget-keymap' defines "\C-m" to
    'widget-field-activate, which is supposed to find the widget under
    point and activate it.  It is incorrect to bind "\C-m" to
    `custom-no-edit' in `custom-mode', which inherits from
    `widget-keymap'.
    
    Why was this change made in the first place?  It seems
    pointless---Custom buffers are read-only, so self-insertion commands
    do nothing anyway; we don't have to bind them to a 'custom-no-edit'
    command that does nothing but raise an error.
    
I'm not responsible for the fix, but I reported the bug that was fixed: See the thread "Customize buffer modification: indicator, feedback, undo" in emacs-pretest, of June 10-11, 2006.

    

Re: [Bug] "You can't edit this part of the Custom buffer"

[Chong Yidong]

>     Why was this change made in the first place?  It seems
>     pointless---Custom buffers are read-only, so self-insertion commands
>     do nothing anyway; we don't have to bind them to a 'custom-no-edit'
>     command that does nothing but raise an error.
>     
> I'm not responsible for the fix, but I reported the bug that was
> fixed: See the thread "Customize buffer modification: indicator,
> feedback, undo" in emacs-pretest, of June 10-11, 2006.

>From your bug report:

    2. Trying to type in the header text has no effect. There should be a
       message indicating that that area of text is read-only. Otherwise,
       with no feedback, the user doesn't understand what's happening and
       why.

I think this is an unreasonable quibble.

With the old behavior, when you try to insert something in a Customize
buffer, you get an error:

  "Text is read-only: Attempt to change text outside editable field"

Now, you get the error:

  "You can't edit this part of the Custom buffer"

The difference is negligible.  No user is going to get confused about
why they can't edit the Customize buffer---it's obvious, from the
appearance of the buffer, which contains buttons and hyperlinks, that
it's not meant to be edited.  (In a similar vein, we don't worry that
users will type "s" in an Info buffer and be shocked that it runs
Info-search instead of inserting text!)

RE: [Bug] "You can't edit this part of the Custom buffer"

[Drew Adams]

    > I'm not responsible for the fix, but I reported the bug that was
    > fixed: See the thread "Customize buffer modification: indicator,
    > feedback, undo" in emacs-pretest, of June 10-11, 2006.

    From your bug report:

        2. Trying to type in the header text has no effect. There
           should be a message indicating that that area of text
           is read-only. Otherwise, with no feedback, the user
           doesn't understand what's happening and why.

    I think this is an unreasonable quibble.

    With the old behavior, when you try to insert something in a Customize
    buffer, you get an error:

      "Text is read-only: Attempt to change text outside editable field"

    Now, you get the error:

      "You can't edit this part of the Custom buffer"

    The difference is negligible.  No user is going to get confused about
    why they can't edit the Customize buffer---it's obvious, from the
    appearance of the buffer, which contains buttons and hyperlinks, that
    it's not meant to be edited.  (In a similar vein, we don't worry that
    users will type "s" in an Info buffer and be shocked that it runs
    Info-search instead of inserting text!)

No. Please read my bug report again. I said "has no effect". And I said
"with no feedback". And that was the behavior at the time: nothing, nada,
zip - no feedback to the user. You hit a key, and you see no effect and no
message. I just retested, to be sure, BTW.

I have no problem with either message that you quote. The problem was that
there was no message at all. Every user action deserves some perceptible
change or feedback.

Re: [Bug] "You can't edit this part of the Custom buffer"

[Chong Yidong]

> No. Please read my bug report again. I said "has no effect". And I said
> "with no feedback". And that was the behavior at the time: nothing, nada,
> zip - no feedback to the user. You hit a key, and you see no effect and no
> message. I just retested, to be sure, BTW.

Revert the change to cus-edit.el to what it was before, and do the
following:

  emacs -q
  M-x customize-face RET font-lock-comment-face RET
  a

A message shows up in the echo area saying

  Text is read-only: "Attempt to change text outside editable field"

Re: [Bug] "You can't edit this part of the Custom buffer"

[Richard Stallman]

    With the old behavior, when you try to insert something in a Customize
    buffer, you get an error:

      "Text is read-only: Attempt to change text outside editable field"

    Now, you get the error:

      "You can't edit this part of the Custom buffer"

That was the aim of my change.  It worked right with editable fields,
but failed with buttons because they don't have their own keymaps.  I
fixed it.

Should buttons work by having their own keymaps?  It seems cleaner
in principle.

RE: [Bug] "You can't edit this part of the Custom buffer"

[Drew Adams]

    > No. Please read my bug report again. I said "has no effect".
    > And I said "with no feedback". And that was the behavior at the time:
    > nothing, nada, zip - no feedback to the user. You hit a key, and you
    > see no effect and no message. I just retested, to be sure, BTW.

    Revert the change to cus-edit.el to what it was before, and do the
    following:

Which change? To what it was before, when?

      emacs -q
      M-x customize-face RET font-lock-comment-face RET
      a

    A message shows up in the echo area saying

      Text is read-only: "Attempt to change text outside editable field"

Are you doubting the bug report was accurate? I told you that I just
retested it in that older build (GNU Emacs 22.0.50.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600)
of 2006-03-20 on W2ONE X server distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version
5.1.2600 configured using `configure --with-gcc
(3.4) --cflags -Id:/g/include').

If there was some time previous to that, where Emacs 22 did not manifest the
bug, and you want to return to that unbugged code, that's fine with me. I
simply reported a bug that existed in a build I was using: there was *no*
feedback to the user at that time. Richard fixed that bug, so presumably he
was able to reproduce it also.

Re: [Bug] "You can't edit this part of the Custom buffer"

[Chong Yidong]

Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

>     With the old behavior, when you try to insert something in a Customize
>     buffer, you get an error:
>
>       "Text is read-only: Attempt to change text outside editable field"
>
>     Now, you get the error:
>
>       "You can't edit this part of the Custom buffer"
>
> That was the aim of my change.  It worked right with editable fields,
> but failed with buttons because they don't have their own keymaps.  I
> fixed it.

What do you mean by "worked right with editable fields"?  Without
`custom-no-edit', the "read-only" message pops up anytime you try
inserting in a Custom buffer, not only inside a field (try it).

Your latest change to cus-edit was buggy too---it made self-insert
command keys activate buttons when the cursor is over them.  I changed
`custom-no-edit' back to its old form, and handled "\C-m" by simply
not rebinding it.

> Should buttons work by having their own keymaps?  It seems cleaner
> in principle.

That would require a big reworking of the widget internals.  We can do
this after the release.

Re: [Bug] "You can't edit this part of the Custom buffer"

[Chong Yidong]

"Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com> writes:

>     > No. Please read my bug report again. I said "has no effect".
>     > And I said "with no feedback". And that was the behavior at the time:
>     > nothing, nada, zip - no feedback to the user. You hit a key, and you
>     > see no effect and no message. I just retested, to be sure, BTW.
>
>     Revert the change to cus-edit.el to what it was before, and do the
>     following:
>
> Which change? To what it was before, when?

Before this change:

2006-07-12  Richard Stallman  <rms@gnu.org>

	* cus-edit.el (custom-no-edit): New command.
	(custom-mode-map): Remap to custom-no-edit instead of
	using suppress-keymap.

>       emacs -q
>       M-x customize-face RET font-lock-comment-face RET
>       a
>
>     A message shows up in the echo area saying
>
>       Text is read-only: "Attempt to change text outside editable field"
>
> Are you doubting the bug report was accurate?

That's right---like I said, it works for me.

RE: [Bug] "You can't edit this part of the Custom buffer"

[Drew Adams]

    > Which change? To what it was before, when?

    Before this change:
    2006-07-12  Richard Stallman  <rms@gnu.org>
    	* cus-edit.el (custom-no-edit): New command.
    	(custom-mode-map): Remap to custom-no-edit instead of
    	using suppress-keymap.

    > Are you doubting the bug report was accurate?

    That's right---like I said, it works for me.

I see. And did you use the Emacs build of the bug report? If not, "it works
for me" is not enough to shed doubt on the bug report. The bug was reported
for a March 20 build.

If you tested only with the build just before Richard's fix, then you are
perhaps doubting that he reproduced the bug, but your test means nothing wrt
the original bug report, which was for the 3/20 build.

Re: [Bug] "You can't edit this part of the Custom buffer"

[Chong Yidong]

>     > Are you doubting the bug report was accurate?
>
>     That's right---like I said, it works for me.
>
> I see. And did you use the Emacs build of the bug report? If not, "it works
> for me" is not enough to shed doubt on the bug report. The bug was reported
> for a March 20 build.
>
> If you tested only with the build just before Richard's fix, then you are
> perhaps doubting that he reproduced the bug, but your test means nothing wrt
> the original bug report, which was for the 3/20 build.

If you like, you can update to the latest CVS sources, revert the
2006-07-12 change, and see if it works for you too.  But in any case,
if the behavior prior to 2006-07-12 is fine, I think we should go back
to that.

Re: [Bug] "You can't edit this part of the Custom buffer"

[Richard Stallman]

    What do you mean by "worked right with editable fields"?  Without
    `custom-no-edit', the "read-only" message pops up anytime you try
    inserting in a Custom buffer, not only inside a field (try it).

I tried it before, and tried it now -- there is no such problem.

    Your latest change to cus-edit was buggy too---it made self-insert
    command keys activate buttons when the cursor is over them.

Yes, that was a bug.  Sorry.

I'll try it again fixing that.

    > Should buttons work by having their own keymaps?  It seems cleaner
    > in principle.

    That would require a big reworking of the widget internals.  We can do
    this after the release.

I did not have in mind changing it now.  The question is, is that the
right way for things to work?