From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: [drew.adams@oracle.com: RE: cannot find :enable in Elispmanualindex] Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2007 11:10:04 -0700 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1180807935 9114 80.91.229.12 (2 Jun 2007 18:12:15 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2007 18:12:15 +0000 (UTC) To: Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jun 02 20:12:14 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HuY5F-0002g6-UG for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 02 Jun 2007 20:12:14 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HuY5F-0004G2-8f for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 02 Jun 2007 14:12:13 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HuY5B-0004FP-IO for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jun 2007 14:12:09 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HuY5A-0004F5-70 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jun 2007 14:12:09 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HuY59-0004F2-Uy for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jun 2007 14:12:07 -0400 Original-Received: from rgminet01.oracle.com ([148.87.113.118]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HuY59-0005EH-Fa for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jun 2007 14:12:07 -0400 Original-Received: from rgmgw2.us.oracle.com (rgmgw2.us.oracle.com [138.1.186.111]) by rgminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.6) with ESMTP id l52IC5Yx032206 for ; Sat, 2 Jun 2007 12:12:05 -0600 Original-Received: from acsmt351.oracle.com (acsmt351.oracle.com [141.146.40.151]) by rgmgw2.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id l52IBACF013319 for ; Sat, 2 Jun 2007 12:12:04 -0600 Original-Received: from dhcp-amer-csvpn-gw2-141-144-73-152.vpn.oracle.com by acsmt351.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2753305611180807813; Sat, 02 Jun 2007 11:10:13 -0700 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:72066 Archived-At: > I do not know how XML differs from HTML. Perhaps something makes XML > harder to edit than HTML; I have no opinion about that. Just a point of info: Both XML and HTML code can be complex. And some XML and some HTML code can be simple. If a generalization about editing ease can be made, it is the opposite: XML is easier to edit than HTML with an editor like Emacs, because, like Lisp, its structure is regular. HTML's structure allows some special cases that make life more difficult for editor assistance and analysis. General HTML allows some things that are non-XML, purportedly to make coding (typing) it easier or quicker for humans. For example, you can use

without a corresponding closing tag

. That is like allowing a Lisp-like language to drop `)' in some situations, for "coding convenience". Such "conveniences" are of course a pita when it comes to code that manipulates code. In Emacs, we commonly use major-mode bindings to analyze, navigate, and manipulate code - automatically provide closing tags and such. Emacs doesn't need the HTML departures from XML. They are not even needed generally, except for legacy reasons. They are considered by many to be bad features introduced for bad reasons. HTML 4.01 (which I think is the latest standard) cleans up some of what existed before, but it still allows some of the non-XML stuff, for backward compatibility. XHTML is what we should target, if we do this Info conversion/replacement. These reference provides good background, especially the first: FAQ about HTML and XHTML: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2004/xhtml-faq XHTML: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/ HTML 4.01: http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/ XHMTML is 100% XML *and* 100% HTML. It is essentially the HTML 4.01 standard, but made consistent - that is, made to also be XML (every

needs a corresponding

etc.). Nothing important is lost by using XHTML instead of the full HTML 4.01, and a lot is gained.