From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: display.texi: (,) isn't documented. Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 10:18:42 -0700 Message-ID: References: <87y7ivkago.fsf@debby.local.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1181236840 28116 80.91.229.12 (7 Jun 2007 17:20:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 17:20:40 +0000 (UTC) To: Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jun 07 19:20:39 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HwLf4-0004fW-4d for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 07 Jun 2007 19:20:38 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HwLf3-00027A-E3 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 07 Jun 2007 13:20:37 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HwLez-00023X-Ni for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Jun 2007 13:20:33 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HwLey-00021g-Ja for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Jun 2007 13:20:33 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HwLey-00020u-EQ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Jun 2007 13:20:32 -0400 Original-Received: from rgminet01.oracle.com ([148.87.113.118]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HwLew-0003TS-Kp for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Jun 2007 13:20:31 -0400 Original-Received: from rgmgw2.us.oracle.com (rgmgw2.us.oracle.com [138.1.186.111]) by rgminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.6) with ESMTP id l57HKRM3018922 for ; Thu, 7 Jun 2007 11:20:28 -0600 Original-Received: from acsmt351.oracle.com (acsmt351.oracle.com [141.146.40.151]) by rgmgw2.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id l57FnmNr029175 for ; Thu, 7 Jun 2007 11:20:27 -0600 Original-Received: from dhcp-4op11-4op12-west-130-35-178-179.us.oracle.com by acsmt350.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2834353571181236727; Thu, 07 Jun 2007 10:18:47 -0700 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <87y7ivkago.fsf@debby.local.net> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:72426 Archived-At: > But let's see when we disambiguate it a bit with a 'c' or a dash: > > 300c40 300:40 300-40 > 12c12 12:12 12-12 > 13c71 13:71 13-71 > 1c0 1:0 1-0 > 12345c0 12345:0 12345-0 > 12345c12345 12345:12345 12345-12345 > > With c the meaning is clearer, I think, with the dash it's more > readable. I'd choose the single c. In 30c40, what makes one necessarily associate the c with 40 and not 30? In France, one writes 11h25 for 11:25 a.m. (time). That is, the `h' is associated with the first number. Units are most often written after quantities, not before: 12m, 15'34", 15min 34sec. (The US dollar is one exception ($12); there are others.) Some people have said that it is obvious that line comes before column. I don't see why that's obvious, but if most people think it is, then there is nothing wrong with (12,25). 12:25 can be confused with a time. 12-25 can be confused with a range of some kind (12 through 25). 12.25 can be confused with a decimal number. Parens are needed for grouping in 12,25 and 12;25 - otherwise, they can be confused with separate mode-line entries (meaning whatever). 12'25" can be confused with several things (but it does have the advantage of suggesting major/primary (line) and minor/secondary (column) units - assuming that it is clear to all that line is primary). I think explicit units help, and are consistent and clear also when only one unit is used (25c). I think they should be placed after the numbers, not before: 1225. So, 12L25C or 12l25c or 12y25x or some such. If we can spare a space, then it is even more readable: 12L 25C. Uppercase letters such as L and C are hard to separate visually from the digits. Using l and c risks confusion between l and 1. It's true that x and y suggest geometric position, not lines and columns. x and y also suggest horizontal and vertical directions, but they do not suggest lines and columns. In a buffer, horizontal and vertical positions can only mean lines and columns, however (unless one is thinking pixels). It's true that y suggests increasing values toward the top, but practice would soon put the lie to that association. I prefer 25x 12y (or 12y 25x), personally, but I can live with any of the proposals, including what we have now. Let the Grand Gnu choose.