From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Info tutorial is out of date Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 16:01:16 -0700 Message-ID: References: <87odvo5a3z.fsf@vh213602.truman.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1153177414 5971 80.91.229.2 (17 Jul 2006 23:03:34 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 23:03:34 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jul 18 01:03:33 2006 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G2c7b-0000N0-E1 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 01:03:27 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G2c7b-0003US-0D for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 19:03:27 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1G2c7N-0003TY-65 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 19:03:13 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1G2c7M-0003T8-5K for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 19:03:12 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G2c7M-0003T5-1T for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 19:03:12 -0400 Original-Received: from [141.146.126.228] (helo=agminet01.oracle.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA:24) (Exim 4.52) id 1G2cA7-0001V4-2b for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 19:06:03 -0400 Original-Received: from rcsmt251.oracle.com (rcsmt251.oracle.com [148.87.90.196]) by agminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.7/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id k6GMnnPl020294 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 18:03:09 -0500 Original-Received: from dradams-lap.us.oracle.com by rcsmt250.oracle.com with ESMTP id 1576283671153177278; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 17:01:18 -0600 Original-To: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1807 In-Reply-To: <87odvo5a3z.fsf@vh213602.truman.edu> Importance: Normal X-Whitelist: TRUE X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:57218 Archived-At: The question is whether teaching Info properly involves teaching the keyboard or not. Not so black and white, please. It's whether it involves teaching the keyboard *for structural navigation* *first*, *when* that structural navigation can be accomplished in another, obvious way (e.g. click a link). I've already said it makes sense to teach some keys up front (e.g. SPC, DEL), because there is no alternative. And I've already said it's OK to teach even the structural navigation keys, after the important stuff has already been covered. You want the question to be mouse vs keyboard, pure & simple. I want it to be important functionalities first, performance enhancements second. I don't care about mice or keyboards, one way or the other (except that I am, like you are, in favor of recommending keys for efficiency). Some keyboard keys are necessary to use Info, and some are unnecessary, even if useful for efficiency. The necessary keys should be taught up front; the unnecessary keys can be taught afterward. No one has ever argued that no Info keys should be taught. Please stop misrepresenting what I've said.