From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: add a mode-line menu to menu-bar? Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 09:44:50 -0800 Message-ID: References: <20061108.022326.107192926.jet@gyve.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1162921534 20053 80.91.229.2 (7 Nov 2006 17:45:34 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 17:45:34 +0000 (UTC) Cc: slawomir.nowaczyk.847@student.lu.se, emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Nov 07 18:45:32 2006 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GhV0l-0007Xt-AI for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:45:23 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GhV0k-0008RJ-RQ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 07 Nov 2006 12:45:22 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1GhV0P-0008IW-CX for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Nov 2006 12:45:01 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1GhV0M-0008Df-5c for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Nov 2006 12:44:58 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GhV0M-0008DX-0V for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Nov 2006 12:44:58 -0500 Original-Received: from [141.146.126.228] (helo=agminet01.oracle.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA:32) (Exim 4.52) id 1GhV0L-0007bI-M6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Nov 2006 12:44:58 -0500 Original-Received: from rcsmt250.oracle.com (rcsmt250.oracle.com [148.87.90.195]) by agminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id kA6Am28d025669; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 11:44:54 -0600 Original-Received: from dhcp-amer-whq-csvpn-gw3-141-144-81-122.vpn.oracle.com by rcsmt250.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2177185591162921491; Tue, 07 Nov 2006 10:44:51 -0700 Original-To: "Masatake YAMATO" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <20061108.022326.107192926.jet@gyve.org> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Whitelist: TRUE X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:61925 Archived-At: > > FYI - tooltips do provide some help on mode-line mouse actions, > > as does `C-h a mode-line'. > > > > There are also other reasons to add such a menu, including > > keyboard access via tmm. However, RMS has already decided against this. > > > > How about adding M-x describe-mode-line and "Describe Mode > Line..." under the "Help" menu? > Like this: I don't want to belabor this, as a decision was already made, but the idea behind a menu-bar menu for Mode Line was to provide a different means of access to the mode-line commands, in addition to providing help about them (a learning aid). The analogy made was the Minibuf menu-bar menu, for minibuffer actions. Wrt your suggestion about the Help menu - I find it less helpful than tooltips, personally. The mode line can be configured differently by different users and in different buffers. Tooltips generally provide help that is (mostly) appropriate for the current mode-line configuration. A help description for the mode-line would be general and verbose, unless it too were a dynamic function (e.g. a collection of current tooltip info). I can't tell from your message just what kind of help you suggest (dynamic and context-sensitive, or static and general). A Help menu item for the mode line might not be a bad idea, but it should just go to the appropriate Info node, IMO. That node should detail the most common mode-line constructs and mouse clicks. If we added such a Help menu item, it might be good to put it in a submenu that also provided help about other UI components - IOW, provide (Info) help on all UI components in one place. These components would include, for example, components described below Info nodes Screen and User Input.