From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: propose adding Icicles to Emacs Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 09:38:38 -0700 Message-ID: References: <87ir9iaamf.fsf@jurta.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1182358599 14798 80.91.229.12 (20 Jun 2007 16:56:39 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 16:56:39 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, rms@gnu.org To: "Juri Linkov" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jun 20 18:56:37 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1I13Tw-0006rs-Og for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 20 Jun 2007 18:56:37 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I13Tw-0002kH-Bz for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 20 Jun 2007 12:56:36 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1I13Ts-0002jy-Rl for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Jun 2007 12:56:32 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1I13Tp-0002j1-P5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Jun 2007 12:56:32 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I13Tp-0002iw-KN for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Jun 2007 12:56:29 -0400 Original-Received: from agminet01.oracle.com ([141.146.126.228]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1I13To-0008PC-5p; Wed, 20 Jun 2007 12:56:28 -0400 Original-Received: from rgmgw2.us.oracle.com (rgmgw2.us.oracle.com [138.1.186.111]) by agminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id l5KGuOu7007021; Wed, 20 Jun 2007 11:56:25 -0500 Original-Received: from acsmt351.oracle.com (acsmt351.oracle.com [141.146.40.151]) by rgmgw2.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id l5KG45SV006801; Wed, 20 Jun 2007 10:56:23 -0600 Original-Received: from dhcp-4op11-4op12-west-130-35-178-179.us.oracle.com by acsmt351.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2971870701182357519; Wed, 20 Jun 2007 09:38:39 -0700 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 In-Reply-To: <87ir9iaamf.fsf@jurta.org> X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:73447 Archived-At: > I have 329 faces now and would like to see them in the format identical to > the format of `list-faces-display' in the *Completions* buffer. I see > no problem with that. > > > Adding a face swatch that is 53 characters wide to each > > completion candidate means a lot of unnecessary clutter for > > *Completions*. It adds nothing for the user in this context > > to repeat the alphabet twice, even if `list-faces-display' > > is "familiar". > > Exactly for the same reason you can complain about clutter in the > output of `list-faces-display'. The contexts are not identical - the use of those buffers is different. You choose a face in *Completions* for any number of reasons. Likewise, you can use `list-faces-display' in different ways. The reasons for using the two are not the same, though there can be some overlap. Space in *Completions* is limited. I want to see as many face names as possible in that relatively small space. *Completions* is about quick interactivity - much more so than is `list-faces-display'. You are picking a face name in *Completions*; it is the name that is most important. Anyway, I agree that you can also make the argument that there might not be a need to show two whole alphabets for each face in `list-faces-display' either. This is under the control of a variable, `list-faces-sample-text', but that variable is not currently a user option - perhaps it should be. Presumably, the idea behind the long default value of `list-faces-sample-text' is the same as that used to display fonts for choosing: show what a representative sample of characters look like. This is important for fonts (hence also for faces) because different characters look different in different fonts. That is, some characters might look very similar whereas other characters look very different. To see the difference between two fonts or faces, you sometimes need to look at a lot of characters. This reason for showing complete alphabets can also be a reason for showing other than just the latin alphabet. Font samples typically include digits, for instance (in MS Windows, they show digits and only a few letters). Some users might want to see different alphabets, for instance. Perhaps `list-faces-sample-text' should be a defcustom, for this reason. The use of face names as candidates in *Completions* is not identical to the use of `list-faces-display'. One way to let users configure this difference would be to use a separate option for the swatch display in *Completions (the default value would not be 53 chars long, IMO). Icicles currently only lets you change the swatch length, but it might be good to let you specify the swatch text instead (a la `list-faces-sample-text').