From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?B?7KGw7ISx67mI?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [ELPA] New package: transient Date: Sun, 3 May 2020 04:12:57 +0900 Message-ID: References: <83k11uqiq1.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="44738"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, tomas@tuxteam.de, rms@gnu.org, Emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat May 02 21:13:45 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jUxa4-000BWy-JX for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 02 May 2020 21:13:44 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51408 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jUxa3-0008MY-KK for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 02 May 2020 15:13:43 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:38122) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jUxZQ-0007V3-NS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 02 May 2020 15:13:05 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jUxZQ-0001Sv-0J for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 02 May 2020 15:13:04 -0400 Original-Received: from pv50p00im-ztdg10011901.me.com ([17.58.6.50]:45868) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jUxZP-0001Q3-Gj for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 02 May 2020 15:13:03 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=icloud.com; s=1a1hai; t=1588446782; bh=3in8x4twOQs+Ib85eve8SPrYCQnqyuU2ZcT395fcViQ=; h=Content-Type:Subject:From:Date:Message-Id:To; b=QLdO31xFzyC4cSxXtwavQrWHzYoJ9ScInrH7DzVNvIYexNsUVk8dufKxqxgN1oSVO LjLMhcZSGIjPiJE/+uXXZtKLH0vGSRhy/xfrOsEtAeeSnaZivqKEnOBDgDB/mCOX+C RJzyeOlQw2JQfzyz82IDE0cslv0/a5Mmg4O3pXNV/VYtyFP571sVVWkJg/XAUoYl+U otk/n5zJAbYgggxptZ0DgDqIdVqINiJyKSsqT8QG6SE627nfc5xRqRcyoq6P+4V2VX i/uQsFPpkMMqHv4Co7HUYm0AxOGnuQ7a4RSbONaD7WL2gukbCCNuE0biQtw/7nVtlU jhTVQRdydckpw== Original-Received: from [192.168.0.3] (unknown [1.230.108.64]) by pv50p00im-ztdg10011901.me.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 63F6A800115; Sat, 2 May 2020 19:13:01 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: <83k11uqiq1.fsf@gnu.org> X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (17E262) X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.138, 18.0.676 definitions=2020-05-02_10:2020-05-01, 2020-05-02 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-2002250000 definitions=main-2005020168 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=17.58.6.50; envelope-from=pcr910303@icloud.com; helo=pv50p00im-ztdg10011901.me.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/05/02 15:13:02 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer X-Received-From: 17.58.6.50 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:248546 Archived-At: > 2020. 5. 3. =EC=98=A4=EC=A0=84 3:46, Eli Zaretskii =EC=9E=91= =EC=84=B1: >=20 > =EF=BB=BF >> From: =EC=A1=B0=EC=84=B1=EB=B9=88 >> Date: Sun, 3 May 2020 03:37:31 +0900 >> Cc: Stefan Monnier , >> tomas@tuxteam.de, >> rms@gnu.org, >> emacs-devel@gnu.org >> Eli Zaretskii =EC=9E=91=EC=84=B1: >>>> My understanding is that slow here means that opening a new *Apropos* >>>> buffer is an small, but additional mental burden when writing code, and= >>>> it slows down writing code. >>> How is that different from having *Completions* pop up instead? >> Which=E2=80=A6 is why a lot of people don=E2=80=99t use *Completion* and u= se company-mode >=20 > Which does the same, just in a menu. How's that different? >=20 >>> And how is looking up the function you need a "burden", when any >>> modern IDE provides some way of showing the possible candidates for >>> what you want to do next? >> Modern IDEs provide the candidates without needing to do any action. >=20 > How's that relevant to the issue at hand? It's a tangent. >=20 >> It=E2=80=99s very different from having to explicitly look up. >=20 > No, it isn't. "Look up" means look through the list of candidates, > applying some logic towards the decision which candidate to choose. I=E2=80=99m assuming you aren=E2=80=99t using auto completion here =E2=80=94= sorry if it=E2=80=99s not true. Looking up with C-h means one has to explicitly trigger a search with a sear= ch term. In contrast, with auto completion it=E2=80=99s basically searching w= ith the latest token one is typing. Which means it has much less burden. One of the many reasons I prefer the prefix scheme is because it works with c= ompletion well =E2=80=94 which is probably also related to discoverability. >>>> The regular naming scheme will mean that we can only search functions t= hat >>>> start with regexp - since the searcher doesn=E2=80=99t need grep-regexp= -alist or >>>> gmm-regexp-concat when trying to get regexp APIs. >>> Do they need rx, as just one example? >> I think that=E2=80=99s a different question. >> (FWIW, I consider that rx shouldn=E2=80=99t appear.) >=20 > Let's see how the re- renaming thread evolves, I'm not sure everyone > will agree. Yes, that kind of bike shedding is the reason why this mailing list exists, r= ight? It=E2=80=99s great to me that there=E2=80=99s at least discussion about this= here. >> Whether or not the searcher wants to know about rx or not, >> it=E2=80=99s probably true that one doesn=E2=80=99t want gmm-regexp-conca= t. >=20 > Why not? Sounds like a very useful function for someone who works > with regular expressions. Oops, looks like I should really sleep. I was meaning grep-regexp-alist.=