From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com>
To: "'Stefan Monnier'" <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>,
"'Chong Yidong'" <cyd@stupidchicken.com>
Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: RE: Pretest
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 19:11:11 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <ECE8D756C33C4BA8A2E649DD9EF88673@us.oracle.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <jwvk492hem7.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org>
> >> After Martin relentlessly and carefully worked out the
> >> bugs from his humongous, many-faceted, and detailed
> >> buffer-display changes, you suddenly changed it all again
> >> (recently). And during a feature freeze, no less. Even
> >> Martin (our resident window/buffer-display expert) has
> >> admitted that he does not yet understand the new code.
> >> Does that count as "something coming up"?
> >
> > No.
>
> Just to put some argument behind it: the new code that
> replaces Martin's is not humongous, not many-faceted, ...
> instead it's a fairly small change, localized change, with
> a reasonably clear "backward compatibility argument".
However simple, it still needs time for testing - pre-pretesting.
> That's why we haven't seen too many bug reports since this
> new scheme has been installed.
Is it a joke? I've had the new changes for a little over a week now, in Emacs
Windows builds. As soon as the changes were in, things were broken for me and I
filed a bug.
It's not surprising that few bugs have been reported yet - the change has not
been in the code for long. Reminds me of the elementary school teacher who
said, "Take-out-your-books--take-out-your-books--take-out-your-books. That's 3
times and your books aren't out yet!"
> Sadly, it goes much less far than Martin's change, so some of the more
> interesting developments end up postponed to 24.2.
I have no problem with that. My main concerns with this, or Martin's, or any
other such changes are (a) backward compatibility, (b) conceptual simplicity,
(c) usage simplicity, and (d) covering the use cases I use (hey, I'm one user)
as well as before (that is, once I've learned how to go beyond backward
compatibility and use the new system).
Martin's stuff never reached the point where people understood it enough to
explain it in simple terms. But it at least had the advantage (for me) that it
worked (for my use cases). I know that he spent a _lot_ of time fixing bugs to
cover various use cases: mine and those of others.
I have nothing against a new approach, if it covers the various use cases and it
is reasonably simple to use. But I think more than a couple of weeks should
pass before you declare it ready for pretest.
Presumably the reason (or at least one of the main reasons) for all these
changes is to simply the interface for users. And perhaps to cover more use
cases (dunno). I'm unaware of any users having actually asked for this
(solution looking for a problem?), but that's OK if it is really an improvement.
On the other hand, if it doesn't match the old system in simplicity and use-case
coverage, then I don't see the point. People need time to judge.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2011-09-21 2:11 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 172+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2011-09-19 18:52 Pretest Chong Yidong
2011-09-19 21:13 ` Pretest Drew Adams
2011-09-20 15:27 ` Pretest Chong Yidong
2011-09-20 21:13 ` Pretest Andy Moreton
2011-09-20 21:33 ` Pretest Chong Yidong
2011-09-21 1:27 ` Pretest Stefan Monnier
2011-09-21 2:11 ` Drew Adams [this message]
2011-09-19 22:29 ` Pretest Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2011-09-20 15:27 ` Pretest Chong Yidong
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2007-03-26 3:52 [david.reitter@gmail.com: file-remote-p malfunctions at site-start (file-name-handler-alist init)] Richard Stallman
2007-03-26 4:40 ` Chong Yidong
2007-03-26 13:14 ` Stefan Monnier
2007-03-26 13:37 ` Michael Albinus
2007-03-26 14:16 ` Chong Yidong
2007-03-26 14:44 ` Michael Albinus
2007-03-27 20:59 ` Chong Yidong
2007-03-31 18:47 ` Michael Albinus
2007-03-31 19:41 ` David Kastrup
2007-03-31 20:02 ` Pretest Chong Yidong
2007-03-18 4:28 Pretest Chong Yidong
2007-03-18 4:31 ` Pretest Juanma Barranquero
2007-03-20 1:34 ` Pretest Chong Yidong
2007-03-20 2:05 ` Pretest Juanma Barranquero
2007-03-20 4:40 ` Pretest dhruva
2007-03-20 12:07 ` Pretest AriT93
2007-03-20 12:36 ` Pretest dhruva
2007-03-20 13:14 ` Pretest AriT93
2007-03-21 22:47 ` Pretest Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2007-03-09 17:46 Killing buffers with mouse Eli Zaretskii
2007-03-20 13:04 ` Pretest Angelo Graziosi
2006-11-18 22:14 Pretest Chong Yidong
2006-11-18 22:58 ` Pretest Lennart Borgman
2006-11-18 23:32 ` Pretest Chong Yidong
2006-11-19 0:53 ` Pretest Juanma Barranquero
2006-11-19 0:56 ` Pretest Nick Roberts
2006-11-19 1:01 ` Pretest Juanma Barranquero
2006-11-19 1:56 ` Pretest Nick Roberts
2006-11-19 2:04 ` Pretest Juanma Barranquero
2006-11-19 3:29 ` Pretest Nick Roberts
2006-11-19 8:45 ` Pretest David Kastrup
2006-11-19 10:03 ` Pretest Nick Roberts
2006-11-19 10:18 ` Pretest David Kastrup
2006-11-19 11:44 ` Pretest Nick Roberts
2006-11-19 14:13 ` Pretest Juanma Barranquero
2006-11-19 14:24 ` Pretest David Kastrup
2006-11-19 14:42 ` Pretest Juanma Barranquero
2006-11-19 14:45 ` Pretest Lennart Borgman
2006-11-19 15:58 ` Pretest David Kastrup
2006-11-19 19:13 ` Pretest Lennart Borgman
2006-11-19 19:27 ` Pretest David Kastrup
2006-11-20 1:15 ` Pretest Stefan Monnier
2006-11-19 17:54 ` Pretest Jason Rumney
2006-11-19 19:14 ` Pretest Lennart Borgman
2006-11-19 19:50 ` Pretest Jason Rumney
2006-11-19 20:48 ` Pretest David Kastrup
2006-11-19 21:33 ` Pretest Lennart Borgman
2006-11-19 21:33 ` Pretest Jason Rumney
2006-11-19 21:49 ` Pretest David Kastrup
2006-11-19 22:04 ` Pretest Jason Rumney
2006-11-19 22:06 ` Pretest Lennart Borgman
2006-11-19 22:44 ` Pretest David Kastrup
2006-11-19 23:02 ` Pretest Lennart Borgman
2006-11-19 23:31 ` Pretest David Kastrup
2006-11-20 0:59 ` Pretest Lennart Borgman
2006-11-20 1:20 ` Pretest David Kastrup
[not found] ` <45616414.2080802@student.lu.se>
2006-11-20 9:55 ` Pretest David Kastrup
2006-11-20 1:20 ` Pretest Stefan Monnier
2006-11-19 21:34 ` Pretest Lennart Borgman
2006-11-19 21:38 ` Pretest Lennart Borgman
2006-11-20 12:59 ` Pretest Richard Stallman
2006-11-19 14:19 ` Pretest Juanma Barranquero
2006-11-20 1:37 ` Pretest Richard Stallman
2006-11-20 3:00 ` Pretest Stefan Monnier
2006-11-20 9:01 ` Pretest Juanma Barranquero
2006-11-20 9:37 ` Pretest Jason Rumney
2006-11-20 10:06 ` Pretest Juanma Barranquero
2006-11-20 10:50 ` Pretest David Kastrup
2006-11-20 10:58 ` Pretest Juanma Barranquero
2006-11-20 15:30 ` Pretest Stefan Monnier
2006-11-20 16:48 ` Pretest Juanma Barranquero
2006-11-20 10:01 ` Pretest David Kastrup
2006-11-20 23:58 ` Pretest Richard Stallman
2006-11-21 0:05 ` Pretest Juanma Barranquero
2006-11-22 13:15 ` Pretest Richard Stallman
2006-11-19 12:48 ` Pretest Richard Stallman
2006-11-19 20:08 ` Pretest Eli Zaretskii
2006-11-19 21:50 ` Pretest Reiner Steib
2006-11-20 12:59 ` Pretest Richard Stallman
2006-11-19 19:59 ` Pretest Eli Zaretskii
2006-11-07 20:13 Pretest Nick Roberts
2006-11-07 22:48 ` Pretest Miles Bader
2006-11-08 1:17 ` Pretest Nick Roberts
2006-11-08 1:41 ` Pretest Miles Bader
2006-10-28 20:33 Pretest Mikko Huhtala
2006-10-27 17:59 Pretest Chong Yidong
2006-10-27 18:52 ` Pretest Paul Pogonyshev
2006-10-27 19:12 ` Pretest David Hansen
2006-10-28 11:31 ` Pretest Eli Zaretskii
2006-11-15 21:35 ` Pretest Reiner Steib
2006-11-15 22:51 ` Pretest Nick Roberts
2006-10-27 19:38 ` Pretest Kim F. Storm
2006-10-28 11:17 ` Pretest Eli Zaretskii
2006-10-29 18:45 ` Pretest Richard Stallman
2006-10-29 20:20 ` Pretest Eli Zaretskii
2006-10-27 20:01 ` Pretest joakim
2006-10-27 21:11 ` Pretest Giorgos Keramidas
2006-10-28 2:30 ` Pretest Andrew M. Scott
2006-10-28 8:11 ` Pretest Yoni Rabkin Katzenell
2006-10-28 8:46 ` Pretest Andreas Roehler
2006-10-28 11:01 ` Pretest Jason Rumney
2006-10-28 13:14 ` Pretest Eli Zaretskii
2006-10-28 21:47 ` Pretest Jason Rumney
2006-10-29 4:30 ` Pretest Eli Zaretskii
2006-10-29 11:17 ` Pretest Jason Rumney
2006-10-29 11:47 ` Pretest Eli Zaretskii
2006-10-30 13:33 ` Pretest Richard Stallman
2006-10-30 21:12 ` Pretest Eli Zaretskii
2006-11-01 2:12 ` Pretest Richard Stallman
2006-11-04 12:15 ` Pretest Eli Zaretskii
2006-11-04 22:23 ` Pretest Jason Rumney
2006-11-05 6:15 ` Pretest Eli Zaretskii
2006-11-05 12:39 ` Pretest Jason Rumney
2006-11-05 12:41 ` Pretest Jason Rumney
2006-10-28 11:13 ` Pretest Eli Zaretskii
2006-10-28 13:30 ` Pretest Benjamin Riefenstahl
2006-10-28 15:25 ` Pretest Chong Yidong
2006-10-28 13:38 ` Pretest Eli Zaretskii
2006-10-28 15:53 ` Pretest Chong Yidong
2006-10-28 19:05 ` Pretest Eli Zaretskii
2006-10-29 21:36 ` Pretest Chong Yidong
2006-10-30 4:25 ` Pretest Eli Zaretskii
2006-10-30 14:21 ` Pretest Chong Yidong
2006-10-28 14:28 ` Pretest Eli Zaretskii
2006-10-28 15:01 ` Pretest Chong Yidong
2006-10-28 19:28 ` Pretest Eli Zaretskii
2006-10-28 20:47 ` Pretest Chong Yidong
2006-10-29 7:43 ` Pretest Eli Zaretskii
2006-10-29 22:11 ` Pretest Chong Yidong
2006-10-30 21:50 ` Pretest Eli Zaretskii
2006-10-30 22:04 ` Pretest Chong Yidong
2006-10-31 4:09 ` Pretest Eli Zaretskii
2006-10-30 13:33 ` Pretest Richard Stallman
2006-10-30 21:02 ` Pretest Eli Zaretskii
2006-11-01 2:12 ` Pretest Richard Stallman
2006-11-01 4:14 ` Pretest Eli Zaretskii
2006-11-02 4:42 ` Pretest Richard Stallman
2006-11-02 19:54 ` Pretest Eli Zaretskii
2006-11-03 7:08 ` Pretest Richard Stallman
2006-11-04 13:50 ` Pretest Eli Zaretskii
2006-11-05 7:08 ` Pretest Richard Stallman
[not found] ` <cyd@stupidchicken.com>
2006-10-28 15:08 ` Pretest Alfred M. Szmidt
2006-10-28 20:52 ` Pretest Chong Yidong
2006-10-28 21:11 ` Pretest Alfred M. Szmidt
2006-10-28 22:09 ` Pretest Chong Yidong
2006-10-28 22:30 ` Pretest Alfred M. Szmidt
2006-10-29 23:40 ` Pretest Chong Yidong
2006-10-30 0:33 ` Pretest Alfred M. Szmidt
2006-10-30 14:12 ` Pretest Chong Yidong
2006-10-30 19:57 ` Pretest Alfred M. Szmidt
2006-10-30 20:18 ` Pretest Chong Yidong
2006-10-30 20:34 ` Pretest Alfred M. Szmidt
2006-10-30 22:18 ` Pretest Chong Yidong
2006-10-30 23:00 ` Pretest Alfred M. Szmidt
2006-11-01 2:12 ` Pretest Richard Stallman
2006-11-02 14:10 ` Pretest Alfred M. Szmidt
2006-10-28 18:13 ` Pretest Richard Stallman
2006-10-28 19:02 ` Pretest Eli Zaretskii
2006-10-29 18:49 ` Pretest Richard Stallman
2006-10-29 20:22 ` Pretest Eli Zaretskii
2006-10-30 19:16 ` Pretest Richard Stallman
2006-11-03 15:39 ` Pretest Drew Adams
2006-11-03 19:22 ` Pretest Eli Zaretskii
2006-11-03 19:51 ` Pretest Lennart Borgman
2006-11-03 20:02 ` Pretest Eli Zaretskii
2006-11-03 20:48 ` Pretest Nick Roberts
2006-11-04 15:26 ` Pretest Richard Stallman
2006-10-30 20:04 ` Pretest Paul Jarc
2006-10-30 23:13 ` Pretest Chong Yidong
2006-10-31 9:44 ` Pretest Jim Thompson
2006-11-05 23:30 ` Pretest Bill Wohler
2006-11-06 0:01 ` Pretest Jason Rumney
2006-11-06 4:22 ` Pretest Eli Zaretskii
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