From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: users and selection changes Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 09:30:32 -0700 Message-ID: References: <87r5fxnwcp.fsf@stupidchicken.com><87eibvupir.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <4CB6115E.7010304@harpegolden.net><87zkuhv1vc.fsf@stupidchicken.com><20F7A620198B48BFBD9582C310C65244@us.oracle.com><83fww8d3m6.fsf@gnu.org><83eibscuf3.fsf@gnu.org><83d3rbdcqi.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1287160289 11797 80.91.229.12 (15 Oct 2010 16:31:29 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 16:31:29 +0000 (UTC) To: "'Miles Bader'" , Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 15 18:31:27 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P6nBm-0004iB-N2 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 15 Oct 2010 18:31:27 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52439 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1P6nBl-0003se-Im for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 15 Oct 2010 12:31:25 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=45508 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1P6nBc-0003rv-PD for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 15 Oct 2010 12:31:18 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1P6nBb-00021D-LS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 15 Oct 2010 12:31:16 -0400 Original-Received: from rcsinet10.oracle.com ([148.87.113.121]:25998) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1P6nBa-00020P-20; Fri, 15 Oct 2010 12:31:14 -0400 Original-Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by rcsinet10.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id o9FGVAao014213 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 15 Oct 2010 16:31:12 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt353.oracle.com (acsmt353.oracle.com [141.146.40.153]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o9FFsviQ001651; Fri, 15 Oct 2010 16:31:10 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt007.oracle.com by acsmt354.oracle.com with ESMTP id 688395321287160240; Fri, 15 Oct 2010 09:30:40 -0700 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.220.39) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Fri, 15 Oct 2010 09:30:39 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: ActsTkTvRNY6gij2QtqHqMpv3UV5pgAMvlGw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5994 In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:131743 Archived-At: > The _problem_ with setting x-select-enable-primary is that now all > _Emacs_ selections end up in the kill ring too, which is almost > certainly Not What You Want. I'm on Windows, so I don't have (or need) option `x-select-enable-primary', but I just looked at its doc string: "Non-nil means cutting and pasting uses the primary selection." First, one might wonder what it means by "cutting and pasting". Is it speaking about cutting and pasting inside Emacs or outside Emacs? Does it really mean kill and yank perhaps? Does Emacs mouse-pasting and mouse-cutting count (where the kill ring might not be involved)? Pretty unclear, to me. Anyway, more important is that the doc string says nothing about what you just said, which seems like important info. All the more so since the option name does not suggest anything about it (the kill ring). Seems like the doc string should say explicitly what you said: non-nil means that all Emacs selections (including mouse selections) are copied to the kill ring. If that's true, I cannot believe it was not mentioned in the doc string. BTW, the Customize :group for this option is `killing', but nothing is said for it about killing. And even the manual (`(emacs)Cut/Paste Other App') is incomplete. It says only that the option controls what gets yanked. It does not say explicitly that it controls what gets put on the kill ring. Yes, yanking only yanks kills, but this could be made clearer. > My idea to get around that problem (expressed on the gnu.emacs.help > newsgroup) is to add a feature that makes emacs put all selections > _except_ those originating from itself (the current Emacs process) on > the kill ring. I guess you mean that all selections made outside Emacs would automatically be added to the kill ring (but some Emacs selections could also still be added to the kill ring). As an option, that might be useful. But users would need to be able to control it. Some users (including me) might not want everything they select outside Emacs to end up on the kill ring. And how would that work? When you select some text outside Emacs, how does it put on the Emacs kill ring? And for which Emacs session - all of them? > That, would basically make things similar to how they used to be How so? I don't recall that Emacs ever added all outside selections to the kill ring. Or did you mean outside copies (e.g. `C-c' on Windows) instead of outside selections (e.g. using mouse)? > [I don't know if this behavior should associated with non-nil > x-select-enable-primary by default, or only upon some special value of > x-select-enable-primary, e.g. (setq x-select-enable-primary 'others). > > It _is_ somewhat quirky (although very convenient) behavior, which > argues for "special setting", but on the other hand, the current > behavior of x-select-enable-primary is almost useless, so ...] BTW (since you mentioned selections from the current Emacs process) - Is there no interest in an ability to copy/paste between Emacs sessions without necessarily affecting the kill ring? I personally want to use the kill ring even for mouse selection, but it seems to me that some people might want, between Emacs sessions, the same ability that they have within a session: be able to select and paste text using the mouse, without adding the selection to the kill ring. Or is that already possible with Emacs on X? I asked that question in bug #6956 but never got an answer. IIUC, you can mouse-select in Emacs and paste to another app, and vice versa, all without affecting the kill ring (only the primary is used by default, IIUC). Why shouldn't you be able to treat a separate Emacs session as one of those other apps?