From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ivan Andrus Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs on OS X development Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 22:32:13 +0200 Message-ID: References: <33545A47-0907-4059-92A6-0343CEDD2750@swipnet.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-19-979597230 X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1342211548 27398 80.91.229.3 (13 Jul 2012 20:32:28 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 20:32:28 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Paul Michael Reilly Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jul 13 22:32:27 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1SpmXG-0004es-Kf for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 13 Jul 2012 22:32:22 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43927 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SpmXF-0001ru-Pt for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 13 Jul 2012 16:32:21 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:41827) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SpmXD-0001rn-8C for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 13 Jul 2012 16:32:20 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SpmXA-0007TM-Nh for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 13 Jul 2012 16:32:19 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wg0-f49.google.com ([74.125.82.49]:55774) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SpmXA-0007TC-En for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 13 Jul 2012 16:32:16 -0400 Original-Received: by wgbez12 with SMTP id ez12so2255591wgb.30 for ; Fri, 13 Jul 2012 13:32:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :message-id:references:to:x-mailer; bh=jTtVTGGIP3sdu+RFQFgo5Pkn4dc5qD/t00X8xkf0ziE=; b=bfL/d1ktvSALjNJVRYmrMAdgp0ZGOIEvPQbx9JyJ3Gke2WPMrgS2XKYnWOfksV1flt yt8p7HL4LBuZPjalm9lGsHWeQl6cXCbBf9oHTZEyEAkjfSCvmJvqx24RUz8XiQGw6qX0 0Zm/ENW9D3n8j/Pg0/3slk/8ga59UsjjHmVcR8a7omzXjYyChG/I8znxt20HVXmotShl j8FMyzsJJ/5ZDG0i82umBF6lUg7YeM8oU4hvmBorbb67RpMO9jxpizedHNfTU3fOJ4d3 yjv07RKLMObZ6lMMPs3zvosjLsqPoPqOMeOZhEBiFpVsOKZCJNU+SfrQ/DQf/4Upr0nS i0hQ== Original-Received: by 10.180.100.35 with SMTP id ev3mr398700wib.10.1342211535310; Fri, 13 Jul 2012 13:32:15 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [10.0.2.25] (catv-80-99-177-93.catv.broadband.hu. [80.99.177.93]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ex20sm2004912wid.7.2012.07.13.13.32.14 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 13 Jul 2012 13:32:14 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 74.125.82.49 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:151603 Archived-At: --Apple-Mail-19-979597230 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 On Jul 13, 2012, at 10:12 PM, Paul Michael Reilly wrote: > On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 3:54 PM, John Wiegley = wrote: > >>>>> Jan Dj=E4rv writes: >=20 > > This might be true in some sense, but it is not practical. GNUStep = does not > > get much attention in Emacs, but it is more likely that a developer = that has > > looked at the OSX code takes a stab at it if they are similar and = use the > > same API:s. If we bring in the Mac port, I think we must drop = GNUStep due > > to lack of developer time. >=20 > Isn't the lack of developer time being spent on GNUstep a fact that = there > aren't many developers interested in maintaining it? >=20 > By not splitting these two, you are losing out on the consistent = efforts of > Yamamoto Mitsuharu, who has done a superlative job at providing an = excellent > experience for Mac users. If we use his code, we also gain him as an = active > developer for a very active platform. By sticking with GNUstep, = however much > the FSF may want that, we are restricting ourselves to a developer = pool > interested in GNUstep -- which is not going to include many people = from the > Mac development camp. >=20 > If there were another alternative to the ns tree that would produce an = OS X Emacs binary, I would build it in a heartbeat and then choose = between the two which one I will put time into supporting. Seems crazy = to me not to give Yamamoto's tree a chance to grow. Is there a git-able = source tree somewhere or is it strictly a patch on top of the ns tree? There is https://github.com/railwaycat/emacs-mac-port though it's not = maintained by Yamamoto as near as I can tell. -Ivan= --Apple-Mail-19-979597230 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 3:54 = PM, John Wiegley <johnw@newartisans.com> = wrote:
>>>>> Jan Dj=E4rv <jan.h.d@swipnet.se> = writes:

> This might be true in some sense, but it is not practical. =  GNUStep does not
> get much attention in Emacs, but it is more likely that a developer = that has
> looked at the OSX code takes a stab at it if they are similar and = use the
> same API:s.  If we bring in the Mac port, I think we must drop = GNUStep due
> to lack of developer time.

Isn't the lack of developer time being spent on GNUstep a fact that = there
aren't many developers interested in maintaining it?

By not splitting these two, you are losing out on the consistent efforts = of
Yamamoto Mitsuharu, who has done a superlative job at providing an = excellent
experience for Mac users.  If we use his code, we also gain him as = an active
developer for a very active platform.  By sticking with GNUstep, = however much
the FSF may want that, we are restricting ourselves to a developer = pool
interested in GNUstep -- which is not going to include many people from = the
Mac development camp.

If there were = another alternative to the ns tree that would produce an OS X Emacs = binary, I would build it in a heartbeat and then choose between the two = which one I will put time into supporting.  Seems crazy to me not = to give Yamamoto's tree a chance to grow.  Is there a git-able = source tree somewhere or is it strictly a patch on top of the ns = tree?

There is https://github.com/r= ailwaycat/emacs-mac-port though it's not maintained by Yamamoto = as near as I can tell.

-Ivan
= --Apple-Mail-19-979597230--