From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?Q?Jan_Dj=C3=A4rv?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Yet another discussion on improving the first time user experience Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2013 19:31:41 +0200 Message-ID: References: <523ED74D.4030205@online.de> <87ioxs4zc9.fsf@informatimago.com> <87k3i8vj93.fsf@yandex.ru> <83bo3kk6hh.fsf@gnu.org> <87eh8gzee5.fsf@yandex.ru> <871u4go1bp.fsf@gmail.com> <837ge8jalb.fsf@gnu.org> <83txhbiyts.fsf@gnu.org> <83siwviwao.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-5A8300CC-FA87-457A-A86B-DE914CB7BE9A Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1380043933 19790 80.91.229.3 (24 Sep 2013 17:32:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2013 17:32:13 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Alp Aker , Emacs-Devel devel , Jay Belanger , Brief Busters , Pascal Bourguignon , Eli Zaretskii To: Lennart Borgman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Sep 24 19:32:16 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1VOWT9-0004FW-IS for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 24 Sep 2013 19:32:15 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47292 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VOWT9-0006OM-6F for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 24 Sep 2013 13:32:15 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:49875) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VOWT0-0006Nm-H5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 24 Sep 2013 13:32:12 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VOWSl-0003PZ-SU for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 24 Sep 2013 13:32:06 -0400 Original-Received: from mail01.bdtv.se ([176.10.222.34]:56789) by eggs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VOWSl-0003GN-Ga for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 24 Sep 2013 13:31:51 -0400 Original-Received: (qmail 18013 invoked by uid 89); 24 Sep 2013 17:31:47 -0000 Original-Received: from h-46-59-42-57.na.cust.bahnhof.se (HELO coolsville.localdomain) (boel.djarv@bdtv.se@46.59.42.57) by mail01.bdtv.se with ESMTPA; 24 Sep 2013 17:31:47 -0000 Original-Received: from [10.154.70.221] (unknown [95.199.6.221]) by coolsville.localdomain (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2D9701A0235; Tue, 24 Sep 2013 17:31:46 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (11A465) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 176.10.222.34 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:163615 Archived-At: --Apple-Mail-5A8300CC-FA87-457A-A86B-DE914CB7BE9A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi.=20 > 24 sep 2013 kl. 16:21 skrev Lennart Borgman : >=20 >> On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Jan Dj=C3=A4rv wrot= e: >> Hello. >>=20 >>> 24 sep 2013 kl. 14:35 skrev Lennart Borgman := >>>=20 >>>> On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 4:49 PM, Alp Aker wro= te: >>>> >> That would be so wrong for new users on OSX. >>>>=20 >>>> > Please educate me, Jan. Does not OSX use some variant CUA by default?= >>>>=20 >>>> It uses a different modifier. >>>=20 >>> Thanks, I see. Did you have something else in mind, Jan? Is there any ob= stacle having cua-mode on by default on OSX >>=20 >> No, I did not have anything else in mind. The OSX equivalents to C-c, C-= v, C-x. C-z (i.e. Cmd-C, Cmd-v, Cmd-x, Cmd-z) and more already work as they d= o in other OSX applications in Emacs. Turning on CUA mode per default is ju= st wrong on OSX, nobody uses those keybindings for copy/paste et.al. >>=20 >> Jan D. >>=20 >=20 > I see. I had no idea of that. What do people use for copy/paste etc in oth= er applications on OSX? Is there another standard? Eh, I just told you. It takes less than a minute to check anyway. If you d= on't care to do that, you should not be suggesting defaults.=20 Jan D.=20= --Apple-Mail-5A8300CC-FA87-457A-A86B-DE914CB7BE9A Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi. 

24 sep 2013 kl= . 16:21 skrev Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman@gmail.com>:

On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Jan Dj=C3=A4rv <jan.h.d@swipnet.se> wrote:
Hello.

24 sep 2= 013 kl. 14:35 skrev Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman@gmail.com<= /a>>:

On Mon= , Sep 23, 2013 at 4:49 PM, Alp Aker <alptekin.aker@= gmail.com> wrote:
>> That would be so wrong for new users on OSX.

> Please educate me, Jan. Does not OSX use some variant CUA b= y default?

It uses a different modifier.

Thanks, I see. Did you have somethin= g else in mind, Jan? Is there any obstacle having cua-mode on by default on O= SX

No, I did not have anything el= se in mind.  The OSX equivalents to C-c, C-v, C-x. C-z (i.e. Cmd-C, Cmd= -v, Cmd-x, Cmd-z) and more already work as they do in other OSX applications= in Emacs.  Turning on CUA mode per default is just wrong on OSX, nobod= y uses those keybindings for copy/paste et.al.

Jan D= .


I see. I had no idea of that. What do people use for copy/paste etc i= n other applications on OSX? Is there another standard?

Eh, I just told you.  It takes less than a &= nbsp;minute to check anyway. If you don't care to do that, you should not be= suggesting defaults. 

    Jan D.&nb= sp;
= --Apple-Mail-5A8300CC-FA87-457A-A86B-DE914CB7BE9A--