From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#9877: 24.0.90; `report-emacs-bug' is even more broken now Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2011 13:08:11 -0700 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1319659769 17496 80.91.229.12 (26 Oct 2011 20:09:29 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2011 20:09:29 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 9877@debbugs.gnu.org To: "'Stefan Monnier'" Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Oct 26 22:09:24 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RJ9mt-0003An-70 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 26 Oct 2011 22:09:23 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37979 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RJ9ms-00028N-ET for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 26 Oct 2011 16:09:22 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:47501) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RJ9mp-00027F-BW for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 26 Oct 2011 16:09:20 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RJ9mn-0004Lg-U9 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 26 Oct 2011 16:09:19 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:44305) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RJ9mn-0004LT-KJ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 26 Oct 2011 16:09:17 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RJ9oT-0005Te-Lu for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 26 Oct 2011 16:11:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2011 20:11:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 9877 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 9877-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B9877.131965981020983 (code B ref 9877); Wed, 26 Oct 2011 20:11:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 9877) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Oct 2011 20:10:10 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RJ9ne-0005SO-53 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 26 Oct 2011 16:10:10 -0400 Original-Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com ([148.87.113.117]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RJ9nc-0005SC-1z for 9877@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 26 Oct 2011 16:10:08 -0400 Original-Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.4) with ESMTP id p9QK8GV0031133 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 26 Oct 2011 20:08:17 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt358.oracle.com (acsmt358.oracle.com [141.146.40.158]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p9QK8G1g005673 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 26 Oct 2011 20:08:16 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt102.oracle.com (abhmt102.oracle.com [141.146.116.54]) by acsmt358.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p9QK8AgR024859; Wed, 26 Oct 2011 15:08:10 -0500 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.194) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Wed, 26 Oct 2011 13:08:10 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: AcyUC3Z3Bajyxe2DRRS8WnKeBM+b5QAARvcQ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109 X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090205.4EA868B1.015F:SCFMA922111,ss=1,re=-4.000,fgs=0 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2011 16:11:01 -0400 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:53176 Archived-At: > > Users reporting a bug with emacs -Q SHOULD NOT HAVE TO > > "tell Emacs how to send email". > > Hmm... should I call that "mail client centric"? No, call it "keep it simple" and "don't `fix' what ain't broke". > There is no reliable way to send email in general without asking > the user. Tell that to Emacs up through version 23. > > Emacs does NOT need to know how to send email if a user > > has a mail client. > > What is that I see? Oh, right an "if", great! And yet, even _if_ a user has a mail client s?he _still_ has to tell Emacs (now) how to send email. That's the point. Not "great!". And that "if" is a commonly satisfied "if", and it is becoming ever more common with the widespread use of mobile devices. Save the configuration of Emacs-as-emailer for when a user _asks_ how to configure it as an emailer: on demand only. > > And NO, Emacs will NOT record your selection and use it > > thereafter. Not if you are using emacs -Q. > > Then don't use "emacs -Q" to send bug reports. It's an > idiotic idea anyway. 1. The text makes no sense if you are reporting a bug with `emacs -Q'. That's the point. 2. No, it is not an idiotic idea to use `emacs -Q to send bug reports. In fact: "If at all possible, give a full recipe for an Emacs started with the `-Q' option (*note Initial Options::). This bypasses your `.emacs' customizations." -- `(emacs) Checklist' That's about the recipe, admittedly. But Emacs also automatically inserts lots of info about the current session into the mail body. Obviously, if the recipe is for `emacs -Q', it makes sense for this session info to also reflect that same context. Marshalling and sending session settings for a context that is totally different from that of the recipe is at best useless and at worst misleading and error prone. Not to mention that if you go to the trouble of reproducing the problem with `emacs -Q' then you might as well report it from that same session. Not to want to clearly, cleanly, and simply support reporting bugs from an `emacs -Q' session is truly misguided. With that outlook, you might as well remove sending a bug report from the Help menu when `emacs -Q', and have `report-emacs-bug' simply raise an error if invoked from an `emacs -Q' session.