From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: AW: delete-selection-mode Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 10:10:23 -0700 Message-ID: References: <87ocitw2dl.fsf@stupidchicken.com><201003130001.o2D01FFQ003489@godzilla.ics.uci.edu><87vdd1yqe4.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87eijjzrkd.fsf_-_@mail.jurta.org><874okf8dep.fsf@lola.goethe.zz><7697A57B1AD9104F993CDF6A5B69430C0A70E50872@CORPMAIL08.corp.capgemini.com><4BA0CDF9.40707@online.de><76682E4761EA432EB929E5E199B0F92A@us.oracle.com><87wrxb57e1.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <87sk7z571u.fsf@lola.goethe.zz><81674B067AF84670A2EDDB0178E0C0CC@us.oracle.com><877hpa68ys.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <871vfi3vd3.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1268934250 9340 80.91.229.12 (18 Mar 2010 17:44:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 17:44:10 +0000 (UTC) To: "'David Kastrup'" , Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Mar 18 18:44:05 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NsJlM-00083u-PH for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 18 Mar 2010 18:44:05 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50177 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NsJlL-0001oT-W6 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 18 Mar 2010 13:44:04 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NsJFB-0005At-L6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Mar 2010 13:10:49 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=53612 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NsJFA-00059O-5M for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Mar 2010 13:10:49 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NsJF7-0005hw-02 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Mar 2010 13:10:47 -0400 Original-Received: from acsinet11.oracle.com ([141.146.126.233]:59381) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NsJF6-0005hc-Gc; Thu, 18 Mar 2010 13:10:44 -0400 Original-Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by acsinet11.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id o2IHAgbN007457 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 18 Mar 2010 17:10:43 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt355.oracle.com (acsmt355.oracle.com [141.146.40.155]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o2IGoVs0009929; Thu, 18 Mar 2010 17:10:40 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt006.oracle.com by acsmt355.oracle.com with ESMTP id 97407071268932226; Thu, 18 Mar 2010 10:10:26 -0700 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.194) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Thu, 18 Mar 2010 10:10:26 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <871vfi3vd3.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> Thread-Index: AcrGdmEK/q9ItNR7SOe9V98U91TjDgAOqEbQ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Source-IP: acsmt355.oracle.com [141.146.40.155] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090208.4BA25E91.016B:SCFMA4539814,ss=1,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:122182 Archived-At: > >> You can set the mark, move somewhere else, type stuff there, and > >> return using C-x C-x, again typing stuff there, without destroying > >> anything you have written. > > > Again, that's just a rehash of an argument why we should *not* even > > have t-m-mode as the default. > > Huh? That works fine with transient-mark-mode. Yes, it works with t-m-mode. But there is no reason to have t-m-mode or an active region, to be able to do that. The example uses nothing about t-m-mode. That is straight, classic behavior for a non-active region. As Stefan pointed out, you might or might not have t-m-mode on when doing that, but you are essentially ignoring t-m-mode and the active region in that example: Stefan> But this lacks crucial info about transient-mark-mode: > if you don't have transient-mark-mode enabled, the above example > will not be affected by delsel or any of its siblings. > > OTOH if you do have t-m-m enabled, then you'll probably want > to use C-u C-x C-x rather than C-x C-x and also use > C-SPC C-SPC (so as not to activate the mark, to avoid > spuriously highlighting the region while you're moving around), > in which case again delsel will have no impact. It's simple: a. Without an active region in the sense expected by new users (e.g. with d-s-mode off), you can do what you described without hitting any extra keys. OK, fine. With an active region (e.g. with d-s-mode on), you have to hit C-g to deactivate the region, but otherwise, your same example applies equally. So: one extra key-press. b. OTOH, to get the usual (for most people) type-to-replace behavior with d-s-mode off, you need to hit C-w (or `delete-region', e.g. DEL). Again: one extra key-press. Each approach can be said to have an advantage and a corresponding disadvantage. You need to hit an extra key (either C-g or C-w/DEL), depending on which approach you take and whether you want to replace the region or add text elsewhere. So the questions are: 1. Which action is more common: replacing selected text or adding text outside the selection. 2. Which behavior is more expected by new users (since we're talking about the default). I use d-s-mode. I have no problem doing the kind of thing you describe. I regularly use marks that way (navigationally), without being bothered in any way by the active region. I can always deactivate it, using C-g. But oddly enough, I find that I rarely need to use C-g that way. Most of the time, other actions have already deactivated the region when I need it to be inactive.