From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Carsten Dominik Subject: Re: Agenda view for logging? Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 00:42:46 +0200 Message-ID: References: <40CEEB8B-2F3F-41E4-885C-58625F7FC5EB@alexanderonline.org> <47FF7F35.3050707@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v919.2) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1235598935==" Return-path: Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JkRxR-0002hl-6C for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 11 Apr 2008 18:42:57 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JkRxQ-0002hZ-GI for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 11 Apr 2008 18:42:56 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JkRxQ-0002hW-8u for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 11 Apr 2008 18:42:56 -0400 Received: from fk-out-0910.google.com ([209.85.128.189]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JkRxP-0004II-As for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 11 Apr 2008 18:42:56 -0400 Received: by fk-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id 26so826285fkx.10 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2008 15:42:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <47FF7F35.3050707@yahoo.com> List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: Jose Robins Cc: bva@alexanderonline.org, emacs-orgmode@gnu.org --===============1235598935== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-5--134183391 --Apple-Mail-5--134183391 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Apr 11, 2008, at 5:09 PM, Jose Robins wrote: > Hi Ben, > Thanks for your detailed response. Your arguments make perfect > sense. Let me try to get into the habit of "scheduling" and putting > "deadlines". It's all a question of learning new habits and sticking > to it. Actually, for simple agenda items, you don't need to schedule or put a deadline at all. But you must, in addition to a time, also put a date. Any of these will do: * Staff meeting <2008-04-12 Sat 10:00-12:30> * Staff meeting <2008-04-12 Sat 10:00-12:30> * Staff meeting 10:00-12:30 <2008-04-12 Sat> * Staff meeting 10:00-12:30 <2008-04-12 Sat> > > > Regards, > Jose > > bva@alexanderonline.org wrote: >> >> Hi Jose, >> >> I'm also still very much a rookie, in GTD and in org-mode. But I'd >> argue against added one more way to add something to the agenda >> time grid. Things show up in the time grid if >> 1) you use C-c C-s (adds SCHEDULED: property to headline) >> 2) you use C-c C-d (adds DEADLINE: property to headline) >> 3) you use C-u C-c . (inserts timestamp at point; headline will >> show up in agenda) >> >> As a novice, I've come to the belief that these multiple ways of >> 'scheduling' (I mean only that a line of text is added to the >> agenda) have grown organically from org-mode's past, by not >> dropping an older, simpler way, but adding a new mechanism for a >> specific type of time-management problem. Each one has its own >> small differences in how it interacts with other features of org- >> mode to support the specific issue it addresses (deadlines show up >> in red, e.g.) >> >> I offer the following thoughts quite humbly, knowing that I'm >> likely among the least effective time-manager and org-mode user on >> this list. >> >> >> In response to your concerns >> a) no need to type extra characters >> response: perhaps you could try the commands listed above. You only >> need to type the time-range, and org-mode fills in the rest >> >> b) no need to clutter up with the date >> response: SCHEDULED and DEADLINE properties can be folded under the >> headline (in fact, they can be put into the PROPERTY drawer, if >> you'd really like to hide them. And there's no extra date verbage >> in the time grid (and I think there is a customization for removing >> the word 'Scheduled' if you don't like it, but I haven't decided to >> dislike it *that* much. It's the default and I trust it's there >> for a good reason) >> >> c) if I miss it today, it'll show up tomorrow >> response: So if you've missed washing the dog today at 9:56, why >> should that task be automatically rescheduled for tomorrow *at the >> exact same time*. If missing the appointed time and date doesn't >> prevent you from doing that task, then perhaps you could make it a >> TODO item that shows up on the global todo list instead. If you >> actually did the task, but didn't get around to changing your >> headline, then it's there for you to deal with inappropriately. >> >> Oh, and if you have a normal date+timestamp, then you find the >> headline and hit S- to move the day forward by one, so the >> manual rescheduling isn't hard either. So if you glance at >> yesterday's agenda, and see something in the wrong place, it's easy >> to move forward. This works in the agenda, in the org-mode buffer, >> and you only need to get point somewhere inside or next to the >> timestamp (I use C-u C-u alot, which isn't very precise, so >> I appreciate that I don't have to get the point to a specific >> character) >> >> I hope you like key-board shortcuts (or you're going to go crazy >> with emacs, much less org-mode!) >> >> Respectfully yours, >> >> Ben >> >> On 2008-04-10 Thu, at 16:35, emacs-orgmode-request@gnu.org wrote: >>> >>> Message: 6 >>> Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 08:09:21 -0700 >>> From: Jose Robins >>> Subject: Re: [Orgmode] Agenda view for logging? >>> To: "Joel J. Adamson" >>> Cc: org-mode >>> Message-ID: <47FE2DA1.3060109@yahoo.com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >>> >>> >>> >>> Joel J. Adamson wrote: >>>> Carsten Dominik writes: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hi Jose, Manish >>>>> >>>>> I don't really think that it would be reasonable to make any entry >>>>> that contains a string that looks like a time show up in the >>>>> agenda. >>>>> >>>> >>>> I think I missed part of this conversation. If I put >>>> >>>> ** Wash the dog <2008-04-10 09:56 > >>>> >>>> in one of my org-agenda-files, it shows up at 9:56 in the agenda >>>> time-grid. Is this not the intended behavior? >>>> >>>> Joel >>>> >>>> >>> Yes, that is intended behavior and it works fine. The question was >>> whether a time range without a time-stamp would work as well. >>> something >>> like... >>> >>> ** 9:55 am - 10:15 am wash the dog >>> - would put this task in "today's" agenda view. >>> >>> I see Carsten's point about not wanting to recognize any >>> arbitrary text >>> string which looks like a time to be considered a >>> "time-of-specification". A possible compromise is to have a string >>> which >>> looks like "<10:15-10:30> " to be considered as a task for today >>> which >>> appears @ the appropriate time in the agenda view. The beauty is >>> that >>> (a) you avoid having to type in extra keystrokes to schedule it, >>> (b) no >>> need to clutter with an additional date and (c) if it doesn't get >>> done >>> or something, when I do the agenda view tomorrow, it shows up >>> there as >>> well and it doesn't get lost. >>> >>> Of course, I may be asking for things that may have other negative >>> implications, since after all, I'm still a rookie with org mode >>> (still >>> wet behind the ears) and maybe there are better approaches to >>> this. :-) >>> >>> >>> -------------- next part -------------- >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>> URL: http://lists.gnu.org/pipermail/emacs-orgmode/attachments/20080410/156bb882/attachment.html >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list >>> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. >>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org >>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode >>> >>> >>> End of Emacs-orgmode Digest, Vol 26, Issue 23 >>> ********************************************* >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Emacs-orgmode mailing list >> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. >> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org >> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode >> > _______________________________________________ > Emacs-orgmode mailing list > Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. > Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode --Apple-Mail-5--134183391 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Apr 11, 2008, = at 5:09 PM, Jose Robins wrote:
Hi Ben,
Thanks for your detailed response. = Your arguments make perfect sense. Let me try to get into the habit of = "scheduling" and putting "deadlines". It's all a question of learning = new habits and sticking to = it.

Actually, for = simple agenda items, you don't need to schedule or put a deadline at = all.  But you must, in addition to a time, also put a = date.

Any of these will = do:

* Staff meeting <2008-04-12 Sat = 10:00-12:30>

* Staff = meeting
  <2008-04-12 Sat = 10:00-12:30>


* Staff meeting = 10:00-12:30 <2008-04-12 Sat>

* Staff meeting = 10:00-12:30 
  <2008-04-12 = Sat>




Regards,
Jose

bva@alexanderonline.org = wrote:
Hi Jose,

I'm also still very much a rookie, in = GTD and in org-mode. But I'd argue against added one more way to add = something to the agenda time grid.  Things show up in the time grid = if
1) you use C-c C-s (adds SCHEDULED: property to headline)
= 2) you use C-c C-d (adds DEADLINE: property to headline)
3) you = use C-u C-c . (inserts timestamp at point; headline will show up in = agenda)

As a novice, I've come to the belief that these = multiple ways of 'scheduling' (I mean only that a line of text is added = to the agenda) have grown organically from org-mode's past, by not = dropping an older, simpler way, but adding a new mechanism for a = specific type of time-management problem. Each one has its own small = differences in how it interacts with other features of org-mode to = support the specific issue it addresses (deadlines show up in red, e.g.) =

I offer the following thoughts quite humbly, knowing that = I'm likely among the least effective time-manager and org-mode user on = this list.


In response to your concerns
a) no = need to type extra characters
response: perhaps you could try the = commands listed above. You only need to type the time-range, and = org-mode fills in the rest

b) no need to clutter up with the = date
response: SCHEDULED and DEADLINE properties can be folded = under the headline (in fact, they can be put into the PROPERTY drawer, = if you'd really like to hide them. And there's no extra date verbage in = the time grid (and I think there is a customization for removing the = word 'Scheduled' if you don't like it, but I haven't decided to dislike = it *that* much.  It's the default and I trust it's there for a good = reason)

c) if I miss it today, it'll show up tomorrow
= response: So if you've missed washing the dog today at 9:56, why should = that task be automatically rescheduled for tomorrow *at the exact same = time*.  If missing the appointed time and date doesn't prevent you = from doing that task, then perhaps you could make it a TODO item that = shows up on the global todo list instead.  If you actually did the = task, but didn't get around to changing your headline, then it's there = for you to deal with inappropriately.

Oh, and if you have a = normal date+timestamp, then you find the headline and hit S-<right> = to move the day forward by one, so the manual rescheduling isn't hard = either.  So if you glance at yesterday's agenda, and see something = in the wrong place, it's easy to move forward.  This works in the = agenda, in the org-mode buffer, and you only need to get point somewhere = inside or next to the timestamp (I use C-u C-u <arrow> alot, which = isn't very precise, so I appreciate that I don't have to get the point = to a specific character)

I hope you like key-board shortcuts = (or you're going to go crazy with emacs, much less org-mode!)
=
Respectfully yours,

Ben

On 2008-04-10 Thu, = at 16:35, emacs-orgmode-request@gnu.or= g wrote:

Message: 6
= Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 08:09:21 -0700
From: Jose Robins <wulfhomme13-rook@yahoo.com>=
Subject: Re: [Orgmode] Agenda view for logging?
To: = "Joel J. Adamson" <jadamson@partners.org> =
Cc: org-mode <emacs-orgmode@gnu.org> =
Message-ID: <47FE2DA1.3060109@yahoo.com>=
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1"
=


Joel J. Adamson wrote:
Carsten Dominik <dominik@science.uva.nl> = writes:


Hi = Jose, Manish

I don't really think that it would = be reasonable to make any entry
that contains a string that = looks like a time show up in the agenda.

=

I think I missed part of this = conversation.  If I put

** Wash the dog = <2008-04-10 09:56 >

in one of my = org-agenda-files, it shows up at 9:56 in the agenda
= time-grid.  Is this not the intended behavior?

= Joel


Yes, that is = intended behavior and it works fine. The question was
whether a = time range without a time-stamp would work as well. something
= like...

** 9:55 am - 10:15 am wash the dog
- = would put this task in "today's" agenda view.

I see = Carsten's  point about not wanting to recognize any arbitrary text =
string which looks like a time to be considered a
= "time-of-specification". A possible compromise is to have a string which =
looks like "<10:15-10:30> " to be considered as a task for = today which
appears @ the appropriate time in the agenda view. = The beauty is that
(a) you avoid having to type in extra = keystrokes to schedule it, (b) no
need to clutter with an = additional date and (c) if it doesn't get done
or something, = when I do the agenda view tomorrow, it shows up there as
well = and it doesn't get lost.

Of course, I may be asking for = things that may have other negative
implications, since after = all, I'm still a rookie with org mode (still
wet behind the = ears) and maybe there are better approaches to this.  :-)
=

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= _______________________________________________
Emacs-orgmode = mailing list
Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the = list.
Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
= http://lists.= gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode


End = of Emacs-orgmode Digest, Vol 26, Issue 23
= *********************************************
=


_______________________________________________
= Emacs-orgmode mailing list
Remember: use `Reply All' to send = replies to the list.
Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
http://lists.= gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

=
_______________________________________________
Emacs-orgmode = mailing list
Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the = list.
Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
http://lists.= gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode

= --Apple-Mail-5--134183391-- --===============1235598935== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode --===============1235598935==--