From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: A new filter-based customization interface Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2025 19:06:12 -0500 Message-ID: <E1tYDOm-0006nR-TA@fencepost.gnu.org> References: <0NIXA7Y2Px1UnKQELQ6RBx5sxmpLWcCpbzAnquDioY@localhost.localdomain> <E1tPwtI-0004mV-39@fencepost.gnu.org> <E1tQfWN-00010c-MI@fencepost.gnu.org> <E1tSU6V-0003wO-Re@fencepost.gnu.org> <87o70quwxo.fsf@> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="36457"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel-proposal@drmail.in, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=C3=B6rn?= Bidar <bjorn.bidar@thaodan.de> Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Jan 16 01:07:11 2025 Return-path: <emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org> Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from <emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org>) id 1tYDPi-0009LU-VX for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 16 Jan 2025 01:07:11 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <emacs-devel-bounces@gnu.org>) id 1tYDOv-0001ij-TJ; Wed, 15 Jan 2025 19:06:21 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <rms@gnu.org>) id 1tYDOs-0001iF-Mv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 15 Jan 2025 19:06:18 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <rms@gnu.org>) id 1tYDOq-0001GL-8w; Wed, 15 Jan 2025 19:06:16 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=yIRz9Ktmb2hNJZPG661uoact/m0sdl1tPLj27CJYqsE=; b=ip8YCLjb8PZC 5F2wBQnmKLcCUQbTOvBfQStmVQPlqkhtDp5eL0aJubE2pzjDQ796ovJy5wHS1I/MZHzktMMZtx3RE ThTBmHBo1rQnLPKhSSVgc7+xOzNSPJ4pkaJkTFsdXV5Low+ecuJ8/CedXiiS3QoC9wVDFP0sxEeIh +mh5L9mCgYao2b1XclP9xoEpF2EXrmL46KY5cwuAE19LwHs53ohCA405sQigKY65sMwJI79+5dopG 0g/i7eW/VQspL+2NWQ//xB7LCsmQVUbdQ4umgrD1/ZhoulCBMycFb+I/1ASIw6W/vgH1okS92nhsm npxASxRMAdsiq1LqeV4tvw==; Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <rms@gnu.org>) id 1tYDOm-0006nR-TA; Wed, 15 Jan 2025 19:06:15 -0500 In-Reply-To: <87o70quwxo.fsf@> (message from =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=C3=B6rn?= Bidar on Wed, 01 Jan 2025 22:00:03 +0200) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." <emacs-devel.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/options/emacs-devel>, <mailto:emacs-devel-request@gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel> List-Post: <mailto:emacs-devel@gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:emacs-devel-request@gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-devel>, <mailto:emacs-devel-request@gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:328100 Archived-At: <http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel/328100> [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > > Why do you keep talking about the JavaScript which you don't > > > like to load? > > > > That sentence seems to stretch words which are not contradictory so as > > to accuse them of being contradictory. > You continued to talk about JavaScript when I told you how you can avoid > it in this context (and possibly) others entirely. It did not occur to me that you meant "Running with JS disabled entirely will work, but running with JS active will not." That is an unusual situation so I did not imagine it. If you had stated it carefully and clearly, you could have made it understandable. Instead of reprimanding people who do not get the meaning you intended, please put more effort into stating your point concretely and clearly. > > I _normally_ disable nonfree JS, by using LibreJS. Are you trying to > > say that the site fails with LibreJS but would work properly if I were > > to disable JavaScrpt 100% instead? > I this context it should work properly but not in all websites. Sometime > websites have fallbacks for users who disable JavaScript completely for > their own personal reasons, for accessibility or to be compatible witn > legacy browsers. It is natural and inevitable that there are sites, with freely licensed JS code, that will work if LibreJS is running but not if JS is simply disabled. We can't avoid that; that possibility is part of the plan. The existence of sites that do the opposite -- they work properly if JS is disabled entirely but will not work with LibreJS - is not inevitabkle. But those sites create a perverse situation for the users. It means there is no one way of avoiding nonfree JavaScript that works for all the sites that could in principle do this. So the that users need to remember that "For sites A, C, G and Q, you must disable JavaScript. For sites B, F, J and Z, you must use LibreJS." That is inconvenient for users. To avoid that kind of inconvenience, the community should ensure that one of those two approaches (LibreJS, or disabling JS entirely) dominates the other in terms of which sites it supports. To give the users this simpler convenience, the sites which currently work without nonfree software if JS is disabled, but do not do so with LibreJS, ought to be changed so that their special hacks for disabled JS also detect LibreJS active. I think that can be done in JavaScript code by means of a conditional which s described in https://gnu.org/software/librejs/free-your-javascript.html. Is it there? If you know of such a site, please do not tell people here that we ought to remember to use that site by totally disabling JS. Instead, please utrge the developers of that site to use a condiional that will detect both cases, and treat the browser-uses-LibreJS cae the same way it now handles JS-deactivated. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)