From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [ELPA] New package: jami-bot and org-jami-bot Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2024 13:51:39 -0500 Message-ID: References: <875y0i7e43.fsf@hoowl.se> <87y1cyqoso.fsf@posteo.net> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="27851"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: stefankangas@gmail.com, hanno@hoowl.se, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Philip Kaludercic Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Jan 11 19:52:40 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rO0AS-00074W-40 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 19:52:40 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rO09d-0007gf-L3; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 13:51:49 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rO09a-0007g9-JH for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 13:51:47 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rO09X-0005GU-8s; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 13:51:44 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=LZhHHwR5I7llqUcE+f8+MXdg/JsXvQ+qSyakgLDKT6s=; b=RnyUx1m6RcS5 +NWaU+dlBLMJtRiUgffflJ7IuSfPEp8hvSiAjbMspaPjxFGSZrOjuiM7b7zV+Za4BS5GAb0Mxz6OZ UUr0AmPOSjXYIG20LU+9SsRxQjJQqSp12SYf+DY2+UJVv/zN1TyX0K6B+9mNYH7xsthzOR4uUwogX tJ7Zjdokyq41LUkvJp3Bj67CF1rf+0oiZI1A3d1ghFoWTFfvPkZTfJMrET03xGyqZBlTowMHc6doH YTMXn4WwlUgDNs3mIn/062KYWSso7BGIXyXlor0M6FbXr40R564NKQGPnpJtpZ/NGSR8+s4K8G62h O87OYN+/kDE/wwv/iEvxUg==; Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rO09T-00073F-9Y; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 13:51:39 -0500 In-Reply-To: <87y1cyqoso.fsf@posteo.net> (message from Philip Kaludercic on Tue, 09 Jan 2024 19:39:35 +0000) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:314867 Archived-At: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > >> org-jami-bot builds upon jami-bot and extends it with Org mode capture > >> functionality for text messages and images. It allows to schedule agenda > >> items at specific dates, compose multi-measure captures and capture > >> images -- all by sending a message via the GNU Jami messenger. When I read that, and looking at it again now. I understand this as saying that this package is a feature for certain kinds of communication from Emacs via Jami. That seems to be the job that the package does. By contrast, the connection with Org mode seems to be a secondary matter -- that this feature interfaces to Emacs: only via Org mode. At least, that is what these words imply to me. If that is true, there is a problem here: a feature which could (and should) be more general has been implemented in a limited way -- to use the Jami capture feature, you are compelled to do it via Org mode. It would not be the first time. There are various other features that were integrated into Org mode and there is no way to use them from Emacs except via Org mode. It is a general design flaw, taking Emacs overall in a bad direction. Stefan Kangas said I was mistaken, that this package is not really an instance of that problem. Did I get the wrong idea of the package from the words I cited above? He said that the Org part was "trivial". Maybe my understanding of the description is mistaken. But it isn't clear yet, because "trivial" can have various gradations. I could be mistaken, or Stefan and I could be miscommunicating, or both. I had better make sure of how things really are. The right way to implement Jami capture for Emacs is to integrate it in a general way, which does not depend on Org mode. Then, if you like, add another layer to access Jami capture conveniently from Org mode. Doing a good job of this means offering the same festures at the same levels, with or without Org mode, If this is in fact what has been done, that's fine. I will be glad to find that the problem I thought I saw does not exist. But I should make sure of this by looking at the code. Yesterday evening I asked someone to send me or point me at the source code for org-jami-bot. (At that time I collected the incoming emails that arrived yesterday.) If someone has sent me that info since yesterday evening, thank you, and I will see that response soon. Otherwise, would someone please send me the source of org-jami-bot? -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)